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Author Topic: SCART Switch Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 05-21-2006 01:48 PM                        I am looking for a SCART switcher that has at least 5 SCART inputs and 1 output. I would prefer it to be active and it MUST handle RGB and audio on all connections. But a lot of SCART switches I have seen don't specify if they handle RGB or if they are composite only. I don't even know why composite exists, everyone on the planet without exception hates it. It serves no useful purpose anymore. I hope whoever invented it scratches off a lottery ticket thinking that they have won the jackpot but instead wins nothing. That'll teach 'em. Anyway, you this think one handles RGB? It doesn't specify: Clickity clicky click Of course I'll have to buy it from the UK, and it is quite expensive at 65 lbs plus shipping.  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 05-21-2006 02:48 PM                        I don't see anything that looks like RGB ins or outs on that back panel. But since SCART supports RGB it looks like you could make up or buy some adapters to bring the RGB pins on the SCART connectors out to some RCA connectors to connect to your system.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 05-21-2006 05:47 PM                        Huh? No, the RGB never needs to be anything other than SCART, so I don't need any fancy connectors. But I have read that since it is European, some SCART systems only support composite because Europeans are weird.  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 05-21-2006 09:04 PM                        Oh. Never mind. Not to worry, SCART supports both RGB and composite on separate sets of pins. You should be good to go.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 05-22-2006 04:19 AM                     The SCART standard includes connections for both composite and RGB connections (S-video was added later) but a device isn't required to implement all of the signals. A VHS recorder for example would only have the composite pins wired. A switch box may, or may not, handle RGB signals, the only way to tell is to look at the spec, or open it up and look, or try it and see.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 05-22-2006 12:29 PM                        I don't want to spend $100 USD just to "try it and see".  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 05-22-2006 05:46 PM                     That's one of the problems with SCART; it's not obvious what signals it provides, or accepts. Could be composite only, composite+RGB, composite+s-video; I've even seen one which handled only audio signals, no video at all! Then there's the lack of support for Y,Pr,Pb, and the fact that the RGB connections are input or output, not both at the same time, though neither of these would have been a problem in the original intended use. They were intended mainly for home use, where most people at that time were connecting video equipment to televisions via a RF cable to the ariel socket, even where video/audio connections existed; they were seen as being too complicated/too much bother/why use four cables when one will do? SCART enabled a single cable, and unlike the old EIAJ 8-pin connector often found on U-Matic etc. handled stereo sound. If you connect a signal source and a display together with a fully-wired SCART cable they will generally automatically work in the best mode of which both are capable. On most televisions which have two SCART sockets only one is RGB capable, the other often has s-video, so you do need to know which to connect to, which goes against the original design concept. The Philips idea of colour coding the sockets blue or orange to indicate whether they handled RGB never seemed to catch on, and I can never remember which colour was which. As I've said before, it was a good idea, but badly implemented. Also, some of the cables are of very poor quality. Do you ever get SCART over there; I've never seen it on any American equipment?  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 05-22-2006 06:42 PM                        I've never seen it offered for home use over here, and wonder what Joe is working with that uses it. Didn't realize that SCART cables and switches aren't necessarily fully populated. That seems dumb to me, but what do I know? The few times I've used it (industrial shows here using EU equipment suppliers like Barco and Philips), the switches and cables had all pins wired up, so I never had to worry (much) about what signals needed to go where. I just assumed all SCART cables were fully wired, allowing the source and destination machines to dictate what the signals would be. Guess I got lucky on those shows.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 05-22-2006 08:36 PM                        I am using it to hook up several older videogame systems (Genesis/Mega Drive, Super Nintendo, Neo-Geo, Sega Saturn and soon NEC TurboGrafx-16) which ouput RGB. I then transcode that RGB into component (Y, Pb, Pr) and that goes into my super kick ass NTSC TV which can handle 240p. Doing it this way looks MUCH better than composite or S-video, and many of the older systems don't even offer S-video. I like component because the reds don't bleed, and it looks as close to true RGB as you're gonna get. Everything works fine now, but I was looking for something that would enable me to be a bit more lazy and not have to switch the cable myself.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 05-23-2006 07:24 AM                     Most cables and devices are fully-wired these days, but not all are. In the past composite only ones were quite common, as few people had any use at home for RGB signals; about the only thing that used them were a few early home computers, such as the BBC micro, which output a basically broadcast standard 625/50 interlaced signal, but could do so in RGB form if required. This was the original reason for the inclusion of RGB in the SCART spec, and the reason why separate input and output pins were nor provided; computers were always outputs, and televisions were always inputs. The RGB connections which most televisions had provided for some years were seldom used until things like DVD players and digital set-top boxes started to appear, when they proved to be useful. Because most televisions in Europe had SCART connections, which could handle RGB, but not Y, Pr, PB, DVD players for the European market tended to have RGB (via SCART only) and component connections, but not Y, Pr, Pb, unlike those in NTSC countries. Recently, Y, Pr, Pb connections have started to appear, on three phono sockets, though most televisions do not have the inputs they are provided on most projectors these days. Oddly, it tended to be on the cheaper DVD players, of Chinese origin, where Y, Pr, Pb component outputs were first provided. More recently, DVD and hard disk recorders which can record RGB signals have created a need for bi-directional RGB signals; I'm not sure how they do this with only one set of pins, I assume they switch them between being outpus and inputs somehow. Joe, what are you using to transcode <-RGB Y, Pr, Pb->, and will it do both NTSC and PAL? I've found a couple of units over here that do it, but they're ridiculous prices.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 05-23-2006 03:00 PM                        It's a unit I ordered from Australia (not from that site, I don't think). It was around $100 or so. It just transcodes, it doesn't have anything to do with NTSC or PAL. If a 59.94Hz signal goes in, that's what comes out. So it'll work with PAL or NTSC depending on the timing and resolution of the input signal. I've had zero problems with it. I also modified it to output sound.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 05-23-2006 05:35 PM                     quote: myself Because most televisions in Europe had SCART connections, which could handle RGB, but not Y, Pr, PB, DVD players for the European market tended to have RGB (via SCART only) and component connections, but not Y, Pr, Pb, unlike those in NTSC countries. I just read what I wrote, and it's wrong. What I meant to say was: Because most televisions in Europe had SCART connections, which could handle RGB, but not Y, Pr, PB, DVD players for the European market tended to have RGB (via SCART only) and composite connections, but not Y, Pr, Pb, unlike those in NTSC countries.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-23-2006 07:39 PM                     It should also be understood that the sync for the RGB in Europe is not on green but on the composite signal. Some people refer to it is RGBCvS. One can not just merely hook the composite signal to an "S" terminal of a 4-wire system either...the sync must be taken from the composite line and then fed to the "S" terminal. There are also devices in the states that will take the RGBCvS signal directly if it knows that is the format.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 05-24-2006 04:47 AM                     SCART does use what is normally the composite video pin for the sync when in RGB mode; I think all RGB monitors that I've ever seen with BNC connections can use either four cables (separate sync), or three cables (sync on green). They either have a switch or auto detect. Many these days have five connectors, so they can also work with positive horizontal and vertical syncs, so they can also be used as VGA computer displays. Over here separate sync is certainly far more common; I'm not sure if I've ever actualy used sync on green. Do you use sync on green over there? Y,Pr,Pb always seems to be just three cables, I assume that it's sync on Y. Getting back to SCART, another advantage of it is that a VCR can automatically switch a television into video mode when play is pressed, and switch it back to off-air mode when the tape is stopped. I would guess that the days of SCART are now numbered; many new high end televisions over here are now 'HD ready', using either DVI or HDMI inputs, with HDCP. There is no HD broadcasting yet, but it's due to start this year. Analogue broadcasts are due to shut down within a few years, and VHS recorders are rapidly going out of fashion. Most of the higher-end (and many of the cheaper) new DVD players and recorders now have digital connections.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 05-24-2006 03:55 PM                        In Y,Pb,Pr (rolls right off of the tongue) the sync is indeed on Y. It is a crazy format. I really can't tell any difference between it and RGB, though. Does anyone notice any visual differences between the two? Component does not transmit green at all, and it does not compress blue or red to my knowledge. I think it figures everything out via math even though it's analog. Crazy!  |  IP: Logged

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