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Author Topic: Help with new PC switching itself off Andy Muirhead Master Film Handler Posts: 323 From: Galashiels, Scotland Registered: Dec 2000 posted 02-22-2006 06:55 PM                     Hey all, need some feedback from the PC savvy crowd! Just bought a new base unit which arrived monday, and all was cool until today when it just powered off completely and restarted. It got progressively worse until it would only be on for a few minutes before it powered off. basic system spec is; AMD Athlon 64 3500+ processor 2x Aries 512Mb PC3200 DDR 400 DIMM RAM Maxtor 200GB 8Mb cache 7200RPM SATA HDD K8 RS482-M Skt939 DDR PCI-E 16x 128Mb ATi R (motherboard) ATi Radeon X550 256Mb PCIE graphics Generic PSU (300W) The system worked well for the first two days, although it powered down once yesterday, then today it just got worse. I booted into the bios and found the processor was running at 56 degrees celsius at idle, which seems pretty high. However shutdown on high temperature in the bios is disabled. I tried removing a case side and pointing a fan at the MB which got the system and processor temp down a little, however it still shut down. Anyone have any ideas whats up?? I don't think it's anything i have installed, ie software or virus issue as it occurs when the machine boots into the bios and is sitting idle. Also it did happen yesterday when i hadn't loaded much software on. I think it may be hardware related, but if this is the case, why did it take perhaps 10 hours of runtime to occur? I'm also pretty sure these machines are run for 24 hours pre test before being dispatched. By the way, this is custom built Aries PC from Watford Electronics in the UK. I'm also thinking perhaps the PSU is not up to the job (300W), but the BIOS reports voltage levels within tolerances, and again why would it take so long for the system to fail so dramatically? Any ideas?? I would try things like re-seating the memory cards, etc, but since it's a new PC and chances are I'm going to have to send it back, I wouldn't like to mess anything. Thanks for any suggestions!!  |  IP: Logged Matthew Bailey Master Film Handler Posts: 461 From: Port Arthur,TX Registered: Sep 2000 posted 02-22-2006 07:18 PM                     If the supply is not putting out clean DC,it can cause the PC to behave like you described. A supply that does not have a clean DC output should be replaced.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-22-2006 07:44 PM                        Bad power switch? (or loose connection)  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 02-22-2006 07:44 PM                     AMD 64's should be powered with a minimum of a 500+w PS. With that much horsepower on the momboard, that AMD 64 is choking and draining the power from that 300w PS. Plug in a 500w + PS for that BIG processor's need. This is why the temperature is quite high on that processor: not enough "oomph" from that 300w PS causing the resistance and temperature to climb and eventuall processor failure will result - let alone the north/southbridge chips as well can fail. Also, that 300w PS has a safety inside when it's being demanded for too much power - opens up and easily can go "poof". This also pertains to those STRONG switchers that a bunch of us have: Too much draw causes them to go as well and that is a big "poof" to handle. Computer PS's are actually "mini switchers" that is in our projectors - and need surge protection from the input power. Quite suprised, if you homebuilt your system, that your supplier didn't recommend a correct PS for all that horsepower and accessories that is plugged on that momboard. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 02-22-2006 07:52 PM                     I agree with others about the power supply being too small. Not only do you have a processor that demands a lot of power, but the real culprit could be the graphics board. Any ATI or nVidia board with 256MB of DDR SDRAM and a fast GPU is going to require hook up to at least a 450 watt power supply or better. I'm surprised anyone even sells 300w power supplys for desktop machines anymore. The next desktop machine I buy will have at least double that amount of wattage.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 02-22-2006 07:56 PM                     ..or build you a "monster" tower with dbl Xeon processors, dual RAID capability, 6 SATA 500gb HDD'S, loaded to the guts with RAM "up the whoosegow" dbl gForce DVI video cards so you can do your 3-D work with...(lol) -Monte  |  IP: Logged Anslem Rayburn Master Film Handler Posts: 476 From: Yuma, AZ, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 02-22-2006 08:01 PM                     I had this same issue when I used a cheap power supply that came with a case. I almost guarantee it's the power supply. Try a decent brand, like Antec, Thermaltake, or if you've got the deep pockets : PC Power & cooling or Zalman. I swapped in an Antec TruePower and everything worked perfectly. I personally use Antec on all the computers I build now, and have never had a problem with any of them. I would use a 400 watt or higher rated supply. Just remember a 400 watt quality supply is far better than a 500 watt cheap-o supply.  |  IP: Logged Adam Wilbert Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 590 From: Bellingham, WA, USA Registered: Mar 2002 posted 02-22-2006 08:12 PM                        something else you can check easily (and free!) would be the memory. Download memtest86 and burn the image to a cd. Boot to the cd, and let it run through the tests.  |  IP: Logged Andy Muirhead Master Film Handler Posts: 323 From: Galashiels, Scotland Registered: Dec 2000 posted 02-22-2006 08:14 PM                     Monte, Bobby, and others, thanks for that info. I was a bit surprised to find out it was only a 300W PSU in the machine. Monte, your remarks are about the processor and resistance etc were very informative, I didn't think about that. I'm glad I posted here about this. It wasn't a home build system, just a pre build that they (the supplier) had. I perhaps stupidly thought the company knew their stuff with regards to the PSU. Just out of interest, if it is the PSU not being rated high enough, would the system have been ok for so long then failed as it did? Adam, thanks, may look at that.  |  IP: Logged Adam Wilbert Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 590 From: Bellingham, WA, USA Registered: Mar 2002 posted 02-22-2006 08:20 PM                        i had a memory issue a few weeks ago that displayed the same random shutdown symptoms. After installing new memory, the computer worked fine for a few days, then started shutting down occasionally, then got progressively worse. Memtest boots itself right after the bios, it is not run from windows, and wouldn't use the videocard, or hard drives or anything else that would tax the psu, if that is indeed the problem. I would just hate for you to go out and buy a new power supply if that isn't the problem! (course replacing 300w isn't a bad idea anyway) [edit - this is in response to something that andy edited out of his post. hahaha]  |  IP: Logged Bruce Hansen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 847 From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-22-2006 08:25 PM                     This sounds like a problem I had. The heat sink was glued to the processor, in addition to the normal "clip" (I guess so that it would not come off in shippment). There was a THICK coating of heat sink grease (there should be only a very thin coat, the grease is there to fill microscopic voids in the metal serfaces, it is not a very good conductor of heat. The more direct metal to metal contact, the better). Either the glue caused the processor and heat sink to seperate, or the thick coat of grease started to impead heat transfer. The computer would reboot now and then, usually when I was running programing the required the processor to work a lot. It started rebooting more often, untill it would not run more than about a minute before rebooting. I figured it almost had to be something with the processor, so I tried to remove the heat sink, and found that I had to pry it off, due to the glue. I chipped the glue off, and cleaned off most of the grease. I then put it back together, and it has been working fine ever since.  |  IP: Logged Andy Muirhead Master Film Handler Posts: 323 From: Galashiels, Scotland Registered: Dec 2000 posted 02-22-2006 08:37 PM                     Adam, Sorry! I posted something then checked your link to see that it booted after the bios, you're too fast for me, haha! so thanks and may well be helpful. Bruce, that's also interesting, and something that I have heard mentioned about this problem.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 02-22-2006 11:04 PM                     Yea, use that "Arctic Silver" compound when mounting headsinks to these high-powered CPU's. quote: Andy Muirhead Just out of interest, if it is the PSU not being rated high enough, would the system have been ok for so long then failed as it did? It might have, if there wasn't any high drawing video cards, all of the slots loaded with the RAM, added devices in the slots...et.al... -Monte  |  IP: Logged Dustin Mitchell Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1865 From: Mondovi, WI, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 02-23-2006 12:43 AM                     Did you connect to the internet with this machine right away? Is it possible you have an un-updated version of Windows XP and you got hit by blasterworm? This sucker is still out there and if you are running an unupdated version of windows it doesn't take long to hit you.  |  IP: Logged Thomas King Expert Film Handler Posts: 119 From: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Registered: Oct 2004 posted 02-23-2006 04:10 AM                        Just to add to the comments about power supplies: Running with a cheap/underpowered supply is one of the worst things you can do to any system (not just computers!). I've measured cheap supplies that were providing voltages way over their (already wide) tolerances. Nothing compares, however, to what happened when someone I know upgraded their ancient PC to a sizzling new P4. They kept the unbranded 200W psu and case. Long story short; it overloaded and broke down, totally destroying every single attatched component. I use this inspirational tale when finance managers refuse to sign for decent kit on the grounds that "the cheaper stuff is just as good, right?".  |  IP: Logged

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