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Author Topic: Christmas at the office: harassment? Dave Williams Wet nipple scene Posts: 1836 From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA Registered: Jan 2000 posted 12-11-2005 12:28 PM                        In this holiday season so many of us want to be all festive and such, and as such some may get a little carried away. So before I begin on this post, I do not want this post to be degraded into a politically or religiously based argument. I just want to know if you feel it is right or wrong, from a human and respect point of view, or if I am just plain goofy. In my office my team is comprised of too many people that want to make christmas everything they ever wanted it to be, but what about those that don't want to be involved? I am not opposed to anyone decorating or celebrating any way they wan't with thier religious holidays, even in the worklplace. However I do have a problem when members of the team have specifically asked to be left out of the involvement, and the team as a whole still involves them whether they like it or not. To qoute our little ring leader "They don't have to participate if they don't want to, but we are going to decorate thier cubicle anyway and give them gifts, so if they don't like it, tough!" Doesn't that constitute forced participation? Now before anyone goes off thinking I am trying to stop christmas, or that people need to be less sensitive, think again! As I stated before, I am all for people celebrating thier religious holidays any way that is permitted by employment law. Remember, this is in the workplace. Our employer is a publicly traded company and is a Fortune 50 company, with business interests in 138 different countries. The problem is that when one person who does not celebrate in this way is forced to do so by thier co workers, this is where it starts to feel offensive. The reason that one chooses to not participate only needs to be important to the person who makes that choice, and does not need any validation from the group. There should be respect for this persons choice, and not be treated like they are misinformed. So I ask you, my Film-Tech family; should I have the right to choose to not have participation in christmas activities at work by my own reasons, and not need to explain them to my co workers? Should I be able to expect a certain degree of sensitivity at the workplace, as I would expect if I were of another culture or religieon? Is it wrong for these co workers to forcibly involve people who have specifically asked not to be involved? Remember do not let this get religious or political. It's a fine line as it is!!! Ciao  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-11-2005 12:40 PM                     I look forword to Christmas festivities every year at work and everywhere else. Are you sure it was ONLY your jaw that you broke....? Because one customer has waited to break ground on his next plex a couple of months later we actually have a little time THIS year at the office. So for once we can actually take the time to have a Christmas Party. Perhaps you should be relegated to having your Christmas dinner at Denny's, then you'd be looking forword to next years festivities a little more than you do now...... Mark  |  IP: Logged Greg Mueller Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1687 From: Port Gamble, WA Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-11-2005 01:02 PM                        I think the world would be a better place if people could not participate if they don't want to. And not be bugged by others. And not bug others. Like..... "In God We Trust" don't believe in god, fine, but don't try to take it from those who do. Believe that JC's b'day is the reason for the season, fine, but don't bug people that think it's all about Santa Clause and buying stuff. Don't like the 3 cross logo for the city of Los Cruces, fine, but don't try to change it, the other people (everyone but you) do like it. Live with it and don't get bugged What ever it is you want or think, fine, just don't try to make anyone else like it or do it. To each his own and keep it outta my face  |  IP: Logged Steve Scott Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1300 From: Minneapolis, MN Registered: Sep 2000 posted 12-11-2005 01:30 PM                     Depends on how many times I'll have to put up decorations for said holiday. And whether or not said decorations will work i.e. lobby xmas lights...  |  IP: Logged Richard Hamilton Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1341 From: Evansville, Indiana Registered: Jan 2000 posted 12-11-2005 01:52 PM                     quote: To qoute our little ring leader "They don't have to participate if they don't want to, but we are going to decorate thier cubicle anyway and give them gifts, so if they don't like it, tough!" How little is this ring leader? I feel an ass kicking is due. I have refused to participate in shit like this, only because the people planning it are so damn pushy about it. Some people think they need to run everyones lives the way they like it. These people think everything revolves around them and their wants.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-11-2005 02:35 PM                     Is this an issue where: A) The "non-participant" is of a religious Faith that doesn't belive in Christmas? (e.g.: Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist?) B) The "non-participant" is of a religions Faith that celebrates Christmas but not in the way that most American Christians celebrate? (e.g.: Jehova's Witness?) C) The "non-participant" celebrates Christmas in the tradional way but only with family members and close friends? D) The "non-participant" simply doesn't like the crass, commercialism most people practice when it comes to celebrating Christmas? E) The "non-participant" just doesn't like the people well enough to celebrate Christmas at the office. If we're talking about situation "A" or "B" then I agree. The people at the office should simply BUG OFF... No questions asked. Do these people know that the "non-participant" is of a religious Faith which doesn't allow them to celebrate? Would revealing this information create a hostile work environment toward the "non-participant"? <facetious humor> If all the above are true then I suggest that you look through the phone book and find the sleaziest, low-down, dirty lawyer you can dredge up from the bottom of a cesspool, somewhere, and sue the living shit out of the company and everybody in it from the C.E.O. on down to the janitor! </facetious humor> Seriously... If you have one of those issues those people should leave you alone. If it's situation "C" then the people at the office should have enough class to simply say, "Merry Christmas.", and leave well enough alone. If we're talking about situation "D" or "E" then I think you're being a little bit thin-skinned. The truth is that most people are too freakin' STOOPIT to realize that some people just don't want to "play" their games. If we ARE talking about situation "A" or "B" then you have the right to carefully remove the decorations from your cubicle, put them into a bag or box and place them on your boss's desk with the statement, "I'm [Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Jehovah's Witness]. These decorations are against my religion." If they give you any flack about it you can give them a choice: 1) They can cease and desist. 2) You will sue for religious parity and demand that a giant Menorah be errected in the front lobby of the building and that a Rabbi be called in to say prayers on Hanukkah... All at the company's expense, of course! [ 12-11-2005, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: Randy Stankey ]  |  IP: Logged Floyd Justin Newton Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 559 From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA Registered: Jun 2002 posted 12-11-2005 04:46 PM                     Randy-- That takes care of THAT!! Happy birthday to me...  |  IP: Logged Jennifer Pan THE JEN! Posts: 1219 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: Nov 2003 posted 12-11-2005 05:21 PM                        I was hoping this thread was about Santa Claus strippers at the office Christmas parties... darn....  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 12-11-2005 05:23 PM                        I'd also add agnostic (does not hold a religious faith but doesn't rule out the possibility of doing so in the future) and atheist (fundamentally opposes the idea of religious faith) to the examples in A. Surely common sense is the key here. In my workplace there is a Christmas party, but it is organised unofficially among ourselves and everyone is free to go or not as the case may be. Some of us send each other Christmas cards but not all. In practice the event is more of an 'end of the working calendar year' celebration, to which lots of non-Christians come. Because the workplace is on a university campus, the whole place shuts down from 23 December until 3 January: you could argue that this is not respecting the views of non-Christians who regard the last week in December as just another normal working week, but given that 3 days in that period are public holidays in the UK and no teaching takes place during it, there's a pretty strong logistical argument for closing the whole place down for the duration, IMHO. If groups of staff wanted to organise celebrations for Hanukkah, Diwali and Eid-al-Fitr, I'm sure no-one would have any problem with that.  |  IP: Logged Ian Price Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1714 From: Denver, CO Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-11-2005 05:53 PM                     Say "Thank you." It's called being gracious.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 12-11-2005 05:58 PM                     This is just a simple matter of one asshole trying to force his views, beliefs, traditions or mere habits on someone else. If someone doesn't want to participate they should not be forced to do so. I am completely against taking Christ out of Christmas. I think the folks who get their panties in a wad over the term, "Merry Christmas" being displayed need to get the stick out of their butt. At the same time, I am completely against the holier than thou types trying to force their idea of Christmas on other people. We're supposed to have religious freedom in this country. That means practicing whatever faith you want or having the freedom to be agnostic. However, that does not entitle any particular group to practice a zero sum game against the beliefs other groups.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 12-11-2005 05:59 PM                        They shouldn't mess with your cubicle even if you are the biggest Bible-bangin' Jesus freak in the world. The point is that it's YOUR cubicle and it is your responsibility to decorate it or not. As for office decorations in the hallways and break rooms and other office nonsense, you'll just have to deal. If you get a gift, thank them and either use it or sell it on eBay for MILLIONS. You should never deny free stuff. That's just wrong.  |  IP: Logged Richard Hamilton Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1341 From: Evansville, Indiana Registered: Jan 2000 posted 12-11-2005 06:06 PM                     Maybe some people don't want to celebrate for various reasons. Maybe a loved one lost their life on Xmas, or a spouse was caught cheating on you this day. If you are really trying to forget this date, religious or not, would you want to be constantly reminded of it by some co workers who are obviously not friends? If it were me, I would politely say no thank you. If they insisted, I would tell them were to go, and not explain why. No matter what the reason is. But thats just me.  |  IP: Logged Rick Raskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1100 From: Manassas Virginia Registered: Jan 2003 posted 12-11-2005 06:40 PM                     quote: To qoute our little ring leader "They don't have to participate if they don't want to, but we are going to decorate their cubicle anyway and give them gifts, so if they don't like it, tough!" This ringleader needs to study up on workplace harassment. One call to the EEOC and the shit'll hit the fan. The person objecting has made his/her wishes known and no further explanation is necessary. Cease and desist!  |  IP: Logged Joshua Waaland Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 800 From: Cleveland, Ohio Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-11-2005 08:34 PM                     Dave, I would have to agree with you that you shouldn't be forced to partake in anything that you want to do. I think this is part of the reason "religious" people get such a bad rap. They try to force it upon people or just come off that way, and many times I think they only have the best intentions. It should be about free will. Someone forcing you to participate in a religious (religious to you maybe but many people celebrate Christmas that aren't religious at all) holiday is just as bad as someone who isn't religious, and in the minority, getting laws enacted that take away rights of the majority who are religious. Either way it sucks. [ 12-12-2005, 06:37 AM: Message edited by: Joshua Waaland ]  |  IP: Logged

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