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Author Topic: Advice Needed for Career Decision Joshua Waaland Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 800 From: Cleveland, Ohio Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-08-2005 05:23 PM                     In fall 2003 I started taking classes part-time for my BSME (Bachelor of Science in Mechanical Engineering) and since January 2005 I have been going full-time. Here is my situation. My employer, who I worked for full-time before and only part-time now, has offered me a job oppurtunity that I need to decide on. It's a small office with only 6 employees and last week I told another employee about a job fair I was going to attend at school to look for a mechanical engineering internship. Thursday she told me that she and the boss were talking about needing another saleperson and knowing that I was looking elsewhere for work, they offered it to me to keep me there. The main reasons I want to leave there are: I want to get experience in engineering and my boss likes to rage too much. He is a screamer and verbally abuses all of us. I have been there 6 years and know more about the product than anyone else because I repair it, so I am a natural fit for the position. The sales position could either be inside sales or outside sales. Either way requires full-time which means cutting back on, or even quitting school. If I do inside sales, I will only be travelling locally most of the time and I could still take classes but will be around the boss. If I do outside sales they would pay for my car, gas, insurance, vehicle maintenance, cell phone and I would get an expense account. Best of all I would have no boss around me. My pay would be about double what is was before. The expense account would be a credit card that would be in my name so it builds my credit score. There are other incidental side perks like earning frequent flyer miles that can be used for my family to take free trips. Not having to pay for vehicle expenses and the cell phone would be a nice indirect raise. My concern is that now that I am in school (for the third time) and going strong, I am not sure I want to quit. I am half-way through the second year and have 2-1/2 years left. My wife likes the idea of me going back to work full-time so we will have more money and we can have kids. The outside sales position would require lots of traveling to the gulf coast states, and wherever else they want to send me which could be as far away as California. This means a lot of time away from family. Once I start down this path I am kind of stuck for a while. Say I quit school, my wife gets pregnant so she can't work and I have no degree. Then I will be in a situation that will be hard to leave. I am wondering if any of you have had similar situations and could offer any advice. Regrets? Happy you did it? I know it's a gamble but I would like to at least know that I made the best decision I could at the time so I am not kicking myself later if it goes south on me. [ 10-09-2005, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Joshua Waaland ]  |  IP: Logged Marc Hansen Film Handler Posts: 93 From: Seattle, WA, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 10-08-2005 07:28 PM                     How about online classes? If you travel far enough to require overnight stays it would be a great way to spend your evenings.  |  IP: Logged John Hegel Expert Film Handler Posts: 166 From: Lake Mills, Iowa Registered: Sep 2000 posted 10-08-2005 07:57 PM                        In the long term the degree will offer you more stability and money.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-08-2005 09:50 PM                     I gotta say...go for the degree...long term you will do better by it. The longer you wait, the harder it will be to ever go back to attain a degree like a BSME. If you are qualified for this super promotion without the degree you will still be qualified afterwords...only you will have many more choices and probably would be as beholden to this one employer for your family's financial security.  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 10-08-2005 10:17 PM                     FINISH YOUR DEGREE, WHICH WILL SECURE MORE LONG TERM POSSIBILITIES! Cheers K  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 10-09-2005 12:51 AM                        Definitely finish the degree. Get it out of the way. Much better long-term possibilities. And lose the screaming boss. I know for me, screaming bosses raise my blood pressure and make me feel lousy in general, even when the screaming isn't aimed at me. I just don't do screaming bosses. They get to yell at me just once, then I leave them.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 10-09-2005 05:19 AM                        Agreed with all the above. At the university our archive is based in, we take students from a wide range of backgrounds, from kids straight out of school to students who have returned to take a degree after raising a family, often in their 40s or 50s. While I know many who students have managed to juggle the demands of their course and bringing up a family very successfully, there's no doubt, from what I've seen, that they're facing a much bigger challenge than many of their colleagues. If your programme is going well and the alternative is the screamoing boss, those are yet two more reasons to see it through, IMHO. While many people can 'deal with' screaming bosses, Paul is 200% right - dealing with them puts pressure on you, even if you're not the object of the screaming. I've had the pleasure of working with three prize examples in my time: one of them is mentioned about half way down page 2 of this thread. The second made life so hot for himself that he eventually upped and left: we later discovered that he probably lied about the 'fantastic new job' he said he was moving on to, and that the real reason was that, after alienating virtually everyone in the institution he worked at (no small achievement, given that it had over 1,000 staff), he was basically told to jump or be pushed. The third dropped dead from a stroke aged 39: a classic case of self-inflicted stress.  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 10-09-2005 09:48 AM                     I 'six-ly' agree with everyone to finish school for a degree, for all the reason listed above... I will include that; you may be an expert in that product, but when the product reaches the end of it's saleable life, (and they all do eventually) you have no experience with anything else. Also, your resume will only have one job experience on it, and that's not good. Employers like to see some diversity, otherwise they think you are not 'well-rounded' and will take too long to get used to their polices and procedures.  |  IP: Logged Joshua Waaland Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 800 From: Cleveland, Ohio Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-09-2005 11:40 AM                     I definitely can say that there isn't a day that goes by that I don't regret my past decisions to not finish school. I didn't take it seriously when I was younger and now my family and I are paying for it. Literally and figuratively. I have been waiting for a sales position since I have been working there and I was promised it would happen when the economy picked up, but after several years of a bad economy I gave up. I couldn't wait for it anymore and I am glad I chose to go back to school. However after being offered this position, my head has been in the clouds for the past few days because it is satisfying to know that I am valued enough to be offered it and that they recognize my abilities. Besides after working monkey jobs most of my life, an expense account, raise and free vehicle are very appealing. I know that if I finish school the long term perks are so much better, but it will be hard to turn this down. I purposely asked for time to think about it because I didn't want to make a rash decision and I knew I wasn't thinking clearly. Now that I have been given time to ponder it, I am leaning more towards school. They don't offer classes in the evenings for a BSME so it would be hard to finish while working. As far as my boss goes, the biggest reason for me wanting to leave is him. I can't believe I made it six years with him. I can't believe he is in his 60's and still alive with the way his blood pressure boils. I had a boss at another job that died of a massive heart attack when he was only 43! He didn't scream or yell but he was a worry wart and he died while playing tennis like he did everyday. He was fit and active. My boss now is overweight and out of shape. A co-worker used to say that he believed evil people live forever and only the good die young. After knowing my boss I would have to say there is some truth to that. I just have had enough and I don't need to be treated that way. My boss hired his son to take my old position in the warehouse and he is so much like him. Before it was managable and he was gone most of the time, but now that his son works there he is there all the time. I came into work two weeks ago and he started yelling at me the moment I walked in. That was when I decided to finally start looking for a new job. My wife used to call me and she could hear him screaming at other people through my phone when I was in the warehouse and he was up front in the office 200 or more feet away.............through walls! The worst part is after working around that so long you start to scream back and I am worried about what other negative effect it is having on me. I could write a book about him but I doubt you would want to read it. He is another big reason to stay in school. [ 10-09-2005, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: Joshua Waaland ]  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 10-09-2005 01:17 PM                     So, Are you going to base your life around one crappy job with no guaranteed future, or are you going to complete your engineering degree, which should hopefully provide you with many potential professional career opportunities? cheers K  |  IP: Logged Mike Heenan Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1896 From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 10-09-2005 04:33 PM                     I know people who have degrees who have "shit" jobs and can't do anything with them, whether that's because their field of work has too many people clamoring for too few positions, or they weren't motivated enough to get out there and get a better job, I don't know. If it were me, I'd take the higher paying job, live cheaply within means and save money for a nest egg, so to say. You can always go back to school easily. But you have and want to expand your family now, so I guess your priorities would be different than mine (me being single and all).  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 10-09-2005 06:50 PM                  Go for the degree! As many have said, you can always fall back on it and most employers weed out those (many times unfairly) without that sheepskin...and I ain't talkin' condoms. A little P&S and hard work and denial of material things for a few years will pay big dividends the rest of your life. The only degree I would pass on getting is a general Liberal Arts or Philosophy one... we already have plenty of taxi drivers... One last point: While "Sales" is the more lucrative end of most companies, it's also one of the most influential as to what products a company should provide. That being said, it's also a double-edge sword in that IF one sells a shitload of product, they are loved. IF they don't, they are canned and the "next" guy takes their place. It takes a special type of person with a "salesman's personality" to be successful. Those that are full of hot air are soon realized for what they are and fail. Those that know WTF they are talking about become respected and successful. "It ain't no easy job". My 2-cents...  |  IP: Logged Joshua Waaland Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 800 From: Cleveland, Ohio Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-09-2005 07:01 PM                     First off thanks for all the advice. It seems like the older gentlemen (no referance to specific age, just older than me and more life under your belt) are all in agreement that the degree is the better way to go. Deep down I agree with you. This has been a problem for me in the past too. When I was in school before I worked at UPS. What was supposed to be a part-time position for living expenses turned into a full-time supervisor position. I signed on faster than you could blink and quit school. It is hard to turn down what seems like a good oppurtunity at the time when someone dangles a carrot in front of you. I am always a sucker for that. You have a good point though Will. I have been told that the BSME degree is about the broadest engineering degree which is promising when it comes to job hunting. Actually most of the ME's that I know are in management anyways. Phil, I would have to agree that most companies do fire people when they don't sell well. This company however is a bit far from the norm. While are boss is a real jerk, he has never fired anyone since I have been there. The reason they want a new sales guy now is that the current one keeps flying all over after they have told him 5-6 times to drive more to save money. He will go to Texas for one single demo and take the whole week to do it. So they want to keep him nearby so he has to drive and put me in his old region. I have seen things go on at that company that would never happen at a bigger place, but nobody gets fired so I am not too concerned about that. Funny you should bring up the personality issue too. I told my wife yesterday that I never saw myself in sales because I am not good at lying and bs-ing people. I am not what you would call a social butterfly type either. She basically said what you just did though that people respect the straight shooter more than the sleazy sales type. Again thanks for the advice guys. I appreciate it. Now if I could just put my wife's biological clock on pause for a few years everything would be much easier.  |  IP: Logged John McConnel Expert Film Handler Posts: 118 From: Okmulgee, OK USA Registered: Nov 2003 posted 10-09-2005 08:16 PM                        Joshua, It's pretty likely you'll be much happier with yourself if you get the degree. So go for it. I'll bet your wife's clock will tick long enough for you to get the degree and still become parents. I got an engineering degree knowing that operating a theatre was what I was going to do. And I'm happy I did it. John  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 10-09-2005 09:58 PM                     Not that my opinion will sway you any, I definitely advise sticking with earning the degree. Regardless of the relentless trend to outsource lots of tech jobs, the United States has a terrible shortage of engineers. There's going to be job security there, and probably pretty decent pay. Not many Americans have the stomach to take all those math courses. The other reason to stick with the degree is the volatile nature of sales type jobs. Such careers can be very unpredictable. One month you're making lots of money. Another month the company is getting bought out and everyone is getting fired. Many sales people just work on commission. Some even have to work as independent contractors and pay self employment tax and don't have squat for benefits. Another feature I don't like about sales is some areas of that trade require you to leave your morals and scruples at home.  |  IP: Logged

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