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Author Topic: Private pilots?
Jason Black
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1723
From: Myrtle Beach, SC, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-06-2005 11:03 PM      Profile for Jason Black   Author's Homepage   Email Jason Black   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Anyone heer have a private pilots license? I'm wondering what is involved in obtaining a license to fly, legally, a Pulsar XP or a model of the like.

Paul? Anyone?

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3835
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 03-07-2005 01:14 AM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Depending on the privileges you want to have, a Recreational Pilot certificate may be all you need. The requirements for a Private Pilot certificate are more involved, and thus more expensive to train for.

Basically Recreational Pilots are limited to:

Carrying no more than one passenger.
Flying within 50 miles of the departure airport.
Single engine, 4-seat, fixed gear airplane of 180hp or less.
Daytime, visual flying.
Altitudes of 10,000' MSL or less.
Airspace where contact with ATC is not required.
Flight inside the US (this certificate does not meet ICAO requirements).

Most of these limitations can be lifted with further training and logbook signoffs.

A minimum of 30 hours of flight experience is needed--15 hours with an instructor and 15 hours solo. There are further sub-requirements within these times.

Ground instruction or a self-study course must be logged in order to meet the aeronautical knowledge requirement. There is no written test.

A third-class medical certificate is needed. As long as you don't have a drug abuse history and can fog a mirror, this is usually not a biggie.

Private Pilots don't have any of these restrictions. The minimum number of hours for them (under Part 61 rules) is 40--20 hours of instruction and 20 hours of solo. Most people take more time than this to be ready for the Private Pilot checkride--the national average is around 65 hours.

There is also a 60-question written aeronautical knowledge test.

A third-class medical certificate is needed.

There is also a new Sport Pilot certificate available, but the Pulsar XP exceeds the aircraft performance limitations imposed for this group. No medical certificate is needed--just a current driver's license. There is a written test. There is a 20-hour minimum flight time requirement (15 hours instruction, 5 hours solo) and a checkride with a designated Sport Pilot examiner. The limitations are similar to those for Recreational Pilots.

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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 03-07-2005 03:44 AM      Profile for Jim Ziegler   Email Jim Ziegler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Someday I will get a pilot's license... And a P-51 Mustang to go with it.. [Smile]

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 6867
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 03-07-2005 04:26 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is there any ongoing recertification process for a pilot's licence, or do you have the licence for life once you've got it? A driving licence (in Britain), for example continues to be valid until your 70th birthday unless you're disqualified (i.e. have your licence suspended following conviction for a driving offence) or diagnosed with some medical conditions. After you're 70 you have to have a medical every three years, but as long as your eyesight doesn't deteriorate there's little chance of failing it. In a way I find this scary, because someone who hasn't driven for 20-30 years could quite legally walk into a Hertz office, hire a car and take to the roads without any retraining.

Given that aircraft are more complicated bits of machinery than most cars and the consequences of causing an accident are potentially a lot greater, is there any way of ensuring that pilots who haven't flown for a long time or in a particular type of aircraft before have their competence assessed before being allowed back into the cockpit?

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Jason Black
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1723
From: Myrtle Beach, SC, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-07-2005 10:40 AM      Profile for Jason Black   Author's Homepage   Email Jason Black   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul,

I would imagine that I would be unable to use the FBO beside of me as it serves the Myrtle Beach Int'l airport. There is a traffic control tower there.. I think the call letters/sign are MYR.

On anoter note, do most runways run in a north/south direction or is this a myth I've had imbedded into my brain? This is all something that would be pursued over the next couple years, as I'm already limited by time and MONEY... [Smile]

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-07-2005 12:48 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jason Black
do most runways run in a north/south direction or is this a myth I've had imbedded into my brain?
Depends mostly upon the prevailing winds. ROC runways are 4/22, 10/28 and 7/25.

Here is a site where you can check hundreds of airports:

http://www.airnav.com/airports/

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8251
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 03-07-2005 01:47 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
www.aopa.com

..if you want to be a member of this.

My father has his own airplane - a 1947 Ercoupe that he tagged for $3k back 20yrs ago. He has to take physcials each year, and he's 81.

To begin to learn, you need to learn in a Links Trainer, or a tail dragger Cessna 180, or a Piper Cub.

Learn how to do "intrument flying", fill out flight plans by hand, learn how to do "prop starts", et.al.

-Monte

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-07-2005 02:59 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just after I started working for Kodak, I took flying lessons in a Cessna 150. Was cleared for solo after about 12 flying hours, and for cross-country solo after about 30 flying hours. Well on my way to getting my license until I almost "bought the farm" the afternoon of July 15, 1972.

I was practicing solo steep cross-wind landings and corrected poorly on one. Decided to go-round, and dumped my flaps. I knew that I couldn't climb until I had sufficient airspeed, as I realized I had to decide whether to go above or below the power lines just beyond the runway. Decided to go over, and just cleared them by a few feet. [Eek!] When I got the plane on the ground, I hung up my torn shirt forever.

A few weeks later, I told the story to a senior Civil Air Patrol check pilot who was my colleague at Kodak. He laughed and said "Why did you quit? You didn't stall, and you made the right decision about the wires, didn't you?" [uhoh]

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3835
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 03-07-2005 05:43 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow John. Interesting story. I've known a few guys that just stopped flying after some point (me being one of them for now). Have to admit, flying is somewhat risky and very unforgiving of mistakes. That said, it looks like you made a good decision that day (many a cropduster has had to go under rather than over wires). [thumbsup] Perhaps someday you'll be bit by the flying bug again. It can be damned expensive though. Flying... Drugs would be cheaper. [Big Grin]

Leo, in the US a pilot's certificate is good indefinitely unless surrendured, cancelled, or revoked. However, to carry passengers or to fly at night or under instrument conditions there are certain currency requirements (so many hours, day and night landings, instrument approaches) over certain time periods. This is for each category and class of aircraft one wants to operate. Also, generally there is a requirement for a flight review with an instructor every 24 months. If one owns his/her aircraft, they're on the honor system as far as following these rules goes. For renters, no FBO will rent to someone that cannot prove currency, either by logbook entry or checkride or both. A current medical certificate is required as well, except for glider, balloon, and sport pilots.

Jason, you're right, can't fly at KMYR if you're a Rec or Sport pilot. But I'm sure there are other close-by uncontrolled airports where you could train. Uncontrolled environments are great for training--they're usually not so busy and the training can be more productive (read "cheaper").

Monte alluded to learning to fly in a "conventional gear" or tailwheel airplane, and I heartily concur. It's a little more challenging at first, but very rewarding once you get the hang of it (you'll never forget what a rudder is for or how to use it). I soloed in a Citabria and did my private training in a Cessna 140. It's the most fun you can have in an airplane with your clothes on. Tricycles are for children. [evil]

AOPA and EAA are great organizations to go to for information on getting started.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-08-2005 11:40 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Paul Mayer
Perhaps someday you'll be bit by the flying bug again. It can be damned expensive though. Flying... Drugs would be cheaper.


Inflation. [Eek!]

When I took lessons at the Brockport Flying Club in 1972, the Cessna 150 solo rate was only $11.00 per flying hour, and the flight instructor charged only $5.00 per hour additional. Today's insurance and fuel prices have certainly changed that.

Ground school was nights at the local BOCES high school.

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Fred Georges
Master Film Handler

Posts: 257
From: Lombard, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 03-08-2005 12:13 PM      Profile for Fred Georges   Email Fred Georges   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
About 25 yrs. ago I was heading to waukegan (IL) airport at night to do some touch & go landings. About 10pm I arrive. I turn base to final approach, all lined up when all of a sudden BAM!! out of the corner of my eye off the starboard wing I see lots & lots of FEATHERS! I had smacked into a HUGE flock of geese. Shaken up a bit I continue my touch & go (in retrospect I should have landed & checked the plane but control & handling felt fine). I made it back to my Home airfield (Howell-Defunct) Landed without incident & then inspected the damage. There was hardly an inch on the leading edge of the starboard wing that wasn't covered with dents & blood. Had the Geese hit the prop & windshield I doubt I'd be here today. I left a note for the FBO (Willie Howell) & slowly slinked away. It was His Brand new (38 hrs. TT) Cherokee 180 that I'd smashed up. Havn't piloted since. I'm sure the Birds are thankful! [Big Grin]

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-08-2005 12:38 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Had they hit the prop in that quantity I doubt if I'd be here today.
Sadly brings to mind the death of another Kodak colleague and pilot, the late Ernie Crisp. Ernie was a former Disney animator, and taught television news cinematographers and editors at Kodak's Marketing and Education Center during the 1970's. He was an experienced and avid pilot, and owned his own classic WACO biplane, based at Williamson-Sodus airport near Rochester.

Ernie "bought the farm" when his hardwood prop disintegrated at an altitude too low to recover. [Frown]

Each year, the National Press Photographers Association sponsors a television news photography and editing competition. The Television News Photographer of the Year receives an award named after Ernie Crisp:

http://www.poynterextra.org/NPPA2003/poy.htm

quote:
The person recognized as the TV Photographer of the Year must show a high level of skill and professionalism. The award serves as recognition of individual ability – an ability against which others can compare their output to determine if they are meeting the standards of the industry.


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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 6867
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 03-08-2005 02:43 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul - thanks for the explanation. I think I'll leave flying to the professionals, apart from the odd stress relief session on Microsoft Flight Simulator (and if my performance on that is anything like it would be in an actual aircraft, you wouldn't want me anywhere near a real cockpit [evil] )...

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Don Furr
Master Film Handler

Posts: 489
From: Sun City, Ca USA
Registered: Nov 2002


 - posted 03-08-2005 02:50 PM      Profile for Don Furr   Email Don Furr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm a private pilot. My ratings and limitations are:
Airplane Single & Multiengine-Land
Instrument Airplane. I added the instrument 12-08-82.
Sold my last plane in 2000, a Beechcraft Twin Bonanza D50. Haven't flown since.
Do I miss it??? YES Do I plan to buy another plane? NO It's like owning a boat. Just go to the airport, get out of your car, walk up to your airplane, throw a bucket full of hundred dollar bills at it, go back to your car and drive home. You can't afford to fly it. [beer]

Don

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3835
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 03-08-2005 03:17 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Leo, there's nothing like flying the real thing.
And MS Flight Simulator is nothing like flying the real thing. [Big Grin]
Which is to say you'd more than likely do just fine in the real thing.

FWIW I can't fly MSFS worth beans.

As Don points out, airplanes and boats (especially sailboats) are similar. I love piloting both, but I wouldn't want to own either.

Airplane/Boat: Hole in the sky/water, lined with Aluminum/fiberglass, into which one throws money.

Q: You know how to make a small fortune in aviation?
A: Start with a big one.

I know there's a lot of money in aviation. I put much of it there myself.

Have time and money to spare? Go by air.
More time and money yet? Take a jet.

Sailing: The art of going nowhere slowly at great expense. [Smile]

[ 03-11-2005, 11:30 PM: Message edited by: Paul Mayer ]

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