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Author Topic: Mini DV vs. DVD for public screening Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 09-06-2004 02:20 PM                        I have a slight problem in the form of a public screening of archive material in a theatre/arts centre next month. We have the material available on 16mm and digibeta, and the venue can't show either - only 35mm, and there's no way we could afford to have blow-ups made. The screen and throw (approx. 50ft throw to a screen about 12 feet by 8) are both way too big to contemplate using a portable halogen-lit 16mm projector, and their lighting/projection booth isn't big enough to put a full-scale 16mm xenon projector in, even if I could lay my hands on one. We have a Proxima portable XGA data projector which on paper ought to be able to fill the venue's screen and be bright enough; though I'm going to check this out personally well in advance. Given the kit we have available (I don't want to risk our digibeta VTR being damaged in transit, and nor to I want the hassle of extricating it from the rack), there are two options for the source: transferring the digibeta to a high bitrate DVD or a Mini DV tape. I'm wondering which of those would give the better picture. Although Mini DV uses less severe lossy compression than a standard format DVD, the data projector does not have a firewire input. Therefore, unless the video was being fed from a laptop through a monitor lead, the connection would have to be an s-video cable. For that reason I'm guessing that there probably won't be a significant difference between the two. Sticking the whole programme on my laptop as a DV file is not an option, as the hard disc isn't big enough. If needs be I'll take both DVD and tape when I visit the venue to check out if our projector will do the job and compare them, but if anyone has a definitive answer it would be much appreciated.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-06-2004 02:29 PM                     If your DVD is decent then I would go with both and use the disc as the main method and tape as the backup. On one very important presentation I went in with 2 discs and 2 tapes. By not using the tape, you will save wear-and-tear on your playback device (especially if it also happens to be your camera) and also those tiny little tapes develop dropouts so I tend not to use them any more than necessary.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 09-06-2004 02:33 PM                     quote: Leo Enticknap Sticking the whole programme on my laptop as a DV file is not an option, as the hard disc isn't big enough. How much disk space would you need? External hard disks are getting very cheap. I've seen the LaCie 500 GB. one for not much more than three hundred pounds. It connects to Firewire 400 or 800, or USB 2. These thiings are very useful wth laptops.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-06-2004 02:35 PM                     Interesting Manny, what kind of tapes/camera have you been using? Neither Joe or myself has seen any degredation of MiniDV tape over repeated uses (so far). Joe has been using a Canon XL1 and I have been using a Panasonic DVX-100. I use Panasonic tapes exclusively, but I think Joe has used just about every kind of tape in his. Leo, I would use the tape first, DVD second and hard drive third. I have seen shows crash because they were played off of a laptop, and I have also seen DVDs glitch, even though the test screening went fine.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 09-06-2004 02:45 PM                    No way to find a 16mm portable with a xenon, or Marc/Gemini illumination?  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 09-06-2004 04:06 PM                        I don't know of anyone or anywhere in the locality which has one. All the cinemas in the region I can think of which do have 16mm use fixed-pedestal xenon machines (FPs or Fumeos, mainly). I strongly suspect that we would also have a lens hassle, given the throw length and screen size. Thanks for the input, folks. Point taken about bringing backup copies of all media. I think what I'm going to do is to take both a DVD player and our little portable Mini DV VTR (a really useful thing about the size of two transistor radios with a small TFT screen built in), see which looks best and use that one as first choice with the other as backup. Brad: I know all about glitches when playing out from a laptop. I was once giving a presentation to some students and had failed to realise that I'd accidently pulled the power supply transformer out of the back of it. Midway through the proceedings the 'low battery' warning dialogue popped up. The process of getting rid of it revealed the Windows wallpaper file - a frame grab from the Pulp Fiction DVD showing Zed and Maynard having fun with Samuel L. Jackson in the cellar! Thank goodness the audience wasn't a group of schoolkids...  |  IP: Logged Bruce Hansen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 847 From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-06-2004 06:22 PM                     Rent a digibeta machine from your local broadcast equipment rental company, and feed component (Y, R-Y, B-Y) to the projector. It will look much better than any of that over-compressed-crap.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 09-06-2004 07:17 PM                    I don't know about over there but here a Digi-Beta deck from a rental house will set you back at least US$500 a day.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 09-07-2004 06:06 AM                        We'd pay around that figure too, and the venue isn't willing to hire in any kit for this show. Neither Mini DV nor DVD is anywhere near ideal, but they look like the only two feasible options given the kit and budget available.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-07-2004 09:00 AM                        I'd agree with the "rent a Digi-Beta deck" crowd. Around here, one can get a Sony J-3 (plays several formats, but doesn't have component output--only SVHS and composite) for about $300 per day. The full-size DVW-A500 is more like $500, but does have component out. I've generally had bad luck with burned DVD-Rs for festival screenings. I haven't dealt much with Mini-DV or DVCAM, but those formats seem rather flimsy and there may be some compatability issues between decks (especially with the "long play" mode on consumer-grade equipment). Beta SP and Digi-Beta are rock solid. If the show is important, it's worth blowing $300 to ensure that something won't go wrong. If that really isn't an option, run both the DVD and the Mini DV tape more-or-less in sync, so that if there is a problem you can switch from one to the other in a few seconds mid-show.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-07-2004 11:31 AM                     The various J series decks can have different video outputs depending on what options one gets. However...none of the J series decs has digital audio out...that one I don't get...with a digital deck, one would think that having a digital output would be standard. Also, the J series only has two audio outputs which I believe can be selected to either channels 1 and 2 or channels 3 and 4. Steve  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-07-2004 04:21 PM                     For those of you burning DVDs for festival screenings.... *Use only Ritek or Pioneer media. This media NEVER fails. *Get yourself a known (recent) quality DVD player. I can vouch for the $75 Panasonic line of "no frills" players as being able to tackle ANYTHING thrown at it...even burns on $0.25 media! Panasonic DVDS25K Panasonic DVDS27K If you are looking for a DVD player of very high quality without spending hoards of money that will also play anything thrown at it, Vinc makes a great players. Vinc model D1 Vinc model D2 Personally, I have the D1 and prefer it over the D2 because you have menu navigation built into the front panel. The only thing NOT accessible from the front panel is the actual "menu" button itself. You have to have the remote for that.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 09-07-2004 05:17 PM                     I would say take care with cheap software, some of which seems to produce DVDs which are not qute standard, and cause problems with some players. If creating a disc for a cinema style screening, keep it simple, avoid multiple titles, menus and any other features that you won't use for such a screening. Never assume that any disc will play correctly on any player; always play the entire programme through on the actual player to be used, before the show. I've no experence wth any digital tape formats, though I have used a great many different analogue ones, from 2" Quad down to 1/4" Akai reel to reel.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-07-2004 06:26 PM                     If you are looking for an industrial DVD player that plays practically everything under the sun (but only a 480i output in RGBcvS or YPbPr and S-Video and composite...nice for having a composite preview whilst having either component or RGB for the display), I like the MarantzPro PMD-930. It is region free and has a 45000 hour drive life. MarantzPro PMD-930 Steve  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-07-2004 07:46 PM                     What's the street price on that Steve? The Vinc units have DVI output and although I don't know the rated drive lifespan, they are cheap enough to throw away and buy another one if/when they die.  |  IP: Logged

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