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Author Topic: Filmophobia
William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-05-2003 02:01 AM      Profile for William Hooper   Author's Homepage   Email William Hooper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In another world, Leo Enticknap was writing about some present uproar in the UK archival "community" & the UK Film Council. He included this tidbit about the UK Film Council:

quote:

Its main function is supposed to be promoting the economic growth of the British film and television production industries, but its remit also extends into distribution and exhibition, education and other cultural activity, hence its role as the funding body for the BFI. According to one of FCUK's recent reports, it gives £16 million to the BFI overall per annum ('Three Years On: A Consultation on our Funding and Policy Priorities', October 2003, p. 6).

What scares me about the FCUK is how little they understand the non-commercial issues. A frightening example is their 'Digital Screen Network' initiative, and I give this example because I think it typifies how they approach archiving, too. This is their grand plan to reinvigorate the arthouse/specialised exhibition market by spending several million (the report doesn't give the exact figure, but their total for distribution and exhibition is £6.75 million) equipping 250 screens with DLP projectors. The rationale behind this is to 'break the binds that 35mm has caught specialised film in' (p. 26) by offering a 'true, film-like experience' using these projectors to circumvent the cost of striking and transporting film prints. But they just don't seem to realise that you can't compare the economics of 35mm vs. digital by taking the cost of prints in isolation, or that the film industry has done these sums and is emphatically rejecting digital. Only yesterday I was chatting to a friend who runs one of this country's leading projection installation and maintenance companies, working with both mainstream and arthouse clients (including some screening facilities for major archives). 'Exhibitors don't want it and the studios won't support it,' was his verdict, pointing out that Boeing have recently cut their losses and pulled out of the d-cinema market (this person makes his living out of cinema exhibition technology, so he should know the score). The economics simply don't make sense - DLP cinema projectors cost six figures and will be obsolete in a couple of years, while a 35mm projector costs £20k and will last for decades.

Yes, the prints are expensive, but print emulsions are improving all the time (something which the d-cinema brigade like to forget when characterising film as a Victorian technology) and the overall cost of delivering the picture to the screen, taking everything into account, is far lower with film than DLP. The big multiplex chains realise this and are therefore refusing to install d-projectors unless someone else pays for them, and the studios are not interested in releasing their product in digital formats. This is best illustrated by the fact that my local arthouse cinema has one of these £160k Christie DLP machines - paid for by our taxes - and so far, the only thing it has been used to project are the adverts at the start of each show! How's that for reinvigorating British film culture?! If FCUK persist with this the result will either be obsolete and useless hardware gathering dust in cinemas up and down the land, or a process of ghettoisation in which arthouse film makers are forced to use second rate technology to produce their product, which is then shown on a network of second-rate screens, while the commercial film industry sticks with the gold standard of 35mm.

In particular, what I recognized were these quotes
quote:
The rationale behind this is to 'break the binds that 35mm has caught specialised film in' (p. 26) by offering a 'true, film-like experience'
The sentiment of the quotes is familiar in its hostility toward 35mm film, in its revelation of not knowing about the distribution or exhibition systems which use it, & its pathological internal denial of the discrepancy between 'true' & something unknown which is believed to be 'film-like'.

I'm more familiar with running into it at the theatrical level: at PAC's where people (managers, techs) who know nothing about film take a look at the projectors & say "they won't work", or "do they still use film", & reflexively start tearing them out to supposedly run movies on video. Audiences don't like it, attendance drops, etc.

Then you've got the dilettante neo-technophiles who folks like Lucas pander to who believe that film is evil & "digital" is better, even if the images are worse.

It's easy to just say "they're dumbasses", but that's no explanation for the hostility that's behind the behavior.

They've got 2 things in common, mentioned above:
1. Uninformed
2. Hostile

It's easy to say "educate", too, but I don't think that's pointed at the right point in the background. PAC managers who don't know about how projectors work also don't know how the air conditioners or the fly systems work, & just shrug their shoulders & leave it to the domain of the HVAC or stage techs. Technophiles suck up arcane information, but like the manager types, evade gathering information about film systems.

A "media convention" I was partially involved in had as one of its seminars "The future (or lack thereof) of film". That was from a distributor/artist viewpoint. Even though the film programs looked better & had better outside attendance, all the handjobs were on cheap DigiBeta & VHS (!) material, with a look of scorn when the film programs were mentioned.

The things which are promotional of course exploit this; Lucas, LHAT getting into bed with Emerging Cinemas, video projector (LCD to DLP) marketing all do it for the same reason - money. They're just taking advantage of the situation. It promotes the situation which already exists.

The hostility is the point where it turns. There must be, somehow, something that literally threatens the individual's ego that brings it about. Is it because a newbie PAC manager feels inadequate or threatened to be percieved as inadequate because he's intimidated by the appearance of the large, mysterious projector? Do the technophiles feel that if an existing technology functions better than a competing new one that the beliefs they use to define themselves are disproved?

What's causing this behavior?

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 12-05-2003 03:19 AM      Profile for Michael Schaffer   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Schaffer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Very simply nothing but ignorance. Those people don`t have a clue what they are talking about, so they look up stuff (presumably on the internet) and then repeat it. At the dawn of the home computer age, virtually all the "major players" failed to see what was coming. Same about the early-mid nineties when none of the "top managers" saw the internet coming. These events have left a deep fear in people to miss new developments. But instead of analyzing on the basis of knowledge of the subject, people come up with all sorts of prophecies in the usually vain hope to be among the first to have seen it coming.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 12-05-2003 02:18 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
...and the history of our industry is littered with examples of this ignorance. Anyone who invested heavily in Kinemacolor or Chronochrome in the '00s and teens, widescreen in the late '20s, stereo sound immediately following Blumlein's experiments in the mid-'30s, 3-D or Vistavision in the '50s - they would have seen their investments written off, either because the technologies themselves are fundamentally flawed or because they were uneconomic in that state at that time.

I don't think I'm a luddite - digital imaging technologies are used very successfully and cost-effectively in production and post production, and increasingly in archival restoration. At the AMIA conference last month I saw a 'before and after' demo of a badly faded 1951 Eastmancolor advert for Philips radios held at the Nederlands Filmmuseum, and the result of its restoration, and output back to film, using the Diamant system operating at 4k resolution. The results were astonishing, and I don't think anything like the same amount of green and blue information could have been recovered by analogue means. Certainly not at the same cost.

But for cinema projection, the technology isn't as good as film and the sums just don't add up. The tragedy of it is that if the Film Council spent that same money upgrading 35mm installations and training projectionists in independent and arthouse cinemas, and on subsidising bigger print runs of arthouse and rerelease titles, there would be a lot more films shown in a lot better quality than this digital project is likely to achieve.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-05-2003 03:32 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There seems to be this idea that "Everybody ELSE in the world has digital movie theaters..." When people try to say that "we" need to get digital in order to keep up with technology I ask them a simple question:
How many digital theaters are there in the WHOLE WORLD?

Answer: About 1,000... And a large portion of those don't operate all the time, leaving only several HUNDRED which run all the time.

Then they say, "But digital is BETTER..." I ask them:
What's the resolution of digital movies? What's the resolution of film?

Answer: (Correct me if I'm wrong on this one.) Digital gives you 2,000 lines. Film gives you OVER 4,000. You have a minimum of a 2-to-1 advantage over digital.

Finally, I ask them, "What does a digital theater system cost?

Answer: $250,000... vs. $50,000 for a film projector.

Then I finish with... "Why, in God's name would you want to tear out a $50,000 machine and replace it with a QUARTER MILLION dollar machine that's only half as good and only a few hundred of them even WORK?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-06-2003 08:48 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually Randy...you are off on Digital "lines". The current "state-of-the-art" 2K DCinema projectors top out at 1280 pixels in vertical resolution (call it 1280 lines)...however the installed base of DCinema projectors top out at 1024 pixels.

However there are the theoretics of film and the realities. The way that the typical theatrical release print is made one would be hard pressed to say it has great resolution or steadiness. Even the colors and contrast suck in comparison to what it could have. If you ever have run or ever run an "EK" print (off of camera negative) you would see what film can do! It is pretty amazing stuff.

One of the things I see as good thing about DCinema is the real potential to deliver an excellent quality "print". I have no doubt that there will be a significant percentage of exhibitors out there that will take that and force it to come out of a cheesy LCD projector and call that good enough with "significant cost savings." They do it right now with sound, they do it with cheapo lenses for film...it just is in this industry's nature...look on the other threads...exhibition cares little to nothing about actually presenting the film (by and large)...you generally need to find an independant exhibitor to find one that puts their money where their mouth is.

Steve

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Kamakshipalya Dhananjay
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 190
From: Bangalore, India
Registered: Aug 2002


 - posted 12-06-2003 09:31 AM      Profile for Kamakshipalya Dhananjay   Email Kamakshipalya Dhananjay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Everybody !

I had been to Bangkok last fortnight for the CINEASIA and saw a digital screening of ONCE UPON A TIME IN MEXICO and FINDING NEMO. To tell you all the truth about what I felt about it, I was amazed out and out with the presentations. The technology was the DLP cinema, severs were by GDC and EVS and the projectors were by BARCO and CHRISTIE.

I decided right there and then that all of the discussion about film being better than digital and so on would stop for me. I am a convert now. I never expected to be such easily impressed with the dlp screenings. But I have thoroughly been impressed. And yes, I am going to buy as many digital projectors as I can possibly afford when we commence on the Multiplexes in our country.

BTW, digital projection is a big craze in Thailand and Singapore. I spent an entire evening at the lobby of CATHAT CINEMAS in Singapore on the opening night of MASTER AND COMMANDER just to read the patrons responses to the digital premiere of that film. And I was pretty humbled to see people I spoke to dont care about film anymore. Not that everyone I spoke to had a perfect appreciation for digital. But practically everyone I spoke to there expressed their fondness for digital cinema over film. And this meant that they would pay much more for the tickets and would rather wait for an available digital show than go to a 'film' show if the initial digital show was sold out. And it happens there all the time. Almost all digital shows are sold out pretty fast.

In all conclusion, this is what I would like to add -
Digital cinema is catching on too rapidly in the ASIA. Multiplexing is only now commencing in the INDIA and CHINA and the forum members here should wait to see what ASIA holds in store for the digital cinema. I may add here that with or without Hollywood's interest and with or without theatres in North America catching on with digital cinema, digital cinema is going to happen soon here.

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 12-06-2003 12:25 PM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Barco sold 20 DP100 2K projectors to Singapore during CineAsia, this in addition to 10 being installed at Kinopolis in Belgium. On the trade show floor digital was the only real activity with GDC, Real Image displaying playback systems and Barco, Christie and DPI projectors with heavy traffic. India is going full speed with four players creating turn key systems.

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Andrew Lee
Film Handler

Posts: 99
From: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 12-06-2003 12:34 PM      Profile for Andrew Lee   Email Andrew Lee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve has brought up an interesting point. What the average theatre patron sees on a 35mm presentation is barely half the resolution of what "could be". With the exception of a few initial release and work prints, I would guess you are viewing 1.5K - 2K of a potential 4K. Getting higher resolution out of film is just not cost effective in today's need for 5000 prints out the door in less than a week or two.

This does give DLP an opening in that right now we are at least looking at equivalent presentation quality for the masses as it now stands. Currently, digital is still out of reach for the most part in North America as a viable alternative, but as Mr. Dhananjay stated, there are some theatre chains ready to jump into the pool very soon.

I was at CineAsia as well and can state that these were indeed impressive presentations.

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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-10-2003 01:47 AM      Profile for William Hooper   Author's Homepage   Email William Hooper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, I was more curious about the massive resentment expressed towards film by people with no technical knowledge, as opposed to looking again at theatrical video inroads.

But as long as it's veering, I'll point out again that it's not being driven by image quality. Regal's going to be the winner in the US here, because they're aware that installing their video projectors for ads is in fact installation of a network. They'll now be in a position to negotiate non-print distribution deals with the studios.

Steve is close to being right, the fact is that 35mm has in fact dictated *some* baselines for theatrical projection. It's not just *possible* that there'll be reductions in resolution: there are already features shot in low-quality digital formats which were printed to film that should *never* have hit a theatrical screen; they'll be easier & faster to put up. Also, as the theatrical model simply moves to automated closed-circuit broadcast, the "stations" & chains will take advantage of the technology's features for maximizing additional ad revenue, branding, & minimizing cost. Just like broadcast now, we can expect the programming quality to quickly move to the minimum (like local TV & cable) using more consumer gear, disregard for signal degredation if componentry can be cheaper & additional features implemented, & negotiated adaptation of the programming itself to suit the "station". We'll see Regal bugs, compression not only of signal data, but of images as the technology's abilities to modify the output for crawls, etc. is used.

It's interesting that earlier reference for video/digital theatrical projection was sort of mockingly referred to as [dlp] , but in fact that's plainly what its business/technical model is reorganizing itself into.

quote:
This does give DLP an opening in that right now we are at least looking at equivalent presentation quality for the masses as it now stands.
The "opening" is actually inferior image quality, but flexibility for sales & marketing uses outside what would for film be considered the program material. DLP now *is* right now using its opening & advantage, which is flexible scheduling & airing ads.

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