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Author Topic: Possible Cell-Phone Ettiquete Law in New York
Jacob Huber
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 172
From: Evansville, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 11-16-2002 02:47 AM      Profile for Jacob Huber   Email Jacob Huber   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From the Libertarian Party Home Page here

Libertarians ridicule New York City's "phone etiquette" proposal

WASHINGTON, DC -- New York City politicians are considering the nation's first proposal to outlaw cell phone calls during movies, concerts and Broadway plays – but Libertarians say social pressure would be a better way to deter such rude behavior.

"Picture Miss Manners with a gun, and you have some idea why this proposal is an overreaction," said George Getz, Libertarian Party communications director. "Civilized people can deal with minor annoyances without further empowering the Nanny State."

This month the New York City Council is expected to consider a bill that would impose a $50 fine on anyone who makes or receives a call, or fails to turn off the phone's ringer, during an indoor
performance at a theater, art gallery, concert hall or library.

If passed in New York, the "cell phone etiquette" law could spread rapidly to other states, industry observers predict. Last year, after New York became the first state to ban using a cell phone while driving, 31 other state legislatures considered similar regulations.

But the real question raised by the New York proposal, Libertarians say, is: "Should bad manners be illegal?"

"There are plenty of other ways to deter someone who's gabbing on a cell phone during a movie, starting with giving them a dirty look, tapping them on the shoulder and asking them to stop, or even asking the manager to do so," Getz said. "When it comes to making people behave, social disapproval works much more efficiently than writing another law."

Besides, enforcing such a measure could pose more problems than the "crime" itself, Libertarians say.

"Imagine every movie theater equipped with cell phone cops who bolt down the aisle every time a ringer goes off, demand a drivers license from the offender, and issue a ticket," Getz said.

"With an army of phone fighters disturbing the peace, patrons will soon long for the days when an occasional cell phone ring was their greatest annoyance.

“Besides, if politicians are going to target people who talk on a cell phone during a movie or play, what about obnoxious people who talk aloud and aren't using a cell phone? Or people who butt in line to buy tickets; take too long to decide what kind of popcorn to buy; or teen-agers who smooch in the back row of the theater?

"Once you put politicians in charge of defining rude behavior, expect the list of annoying behaviors to grow.”

That's why the best way to ensure cell-phone etiquette is to put private individuals and businesses in charge, Libertarians say.

"Many private businesses already prohibit customers from eating, drinking, using foul language and other rude behaviors, so they can simply add using a cell phone to the list if they desire," he said.

"In fact, simply encouraging every business to implement its own policy might solve the problem instantly. People who find cell phones annoying could patronize cell-phone free theaters, stores,
and restaurants. Meanwhile, people who insist on yakking loudly on their phones would get exactly what they deserve: the company of other people just as obnoxious as they are.

"There's no reason to hire more cops to impose cell phone etiquette. Let's urge New Yorkers to disconnect this ridiculous proposal before it spreads to other states."

---------------------

Personally, as with most issues, I'm with the Libertatians on this one.

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Lionel Fouillen
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From: Belgium
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 - posted 11-16-2002 04:02 AM      Profile for Lionel Fouillen   Email Lionel Fouillen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Isn't there a technology allowing to scramble cell phone communications within a specific range, therefore making them unusable in an auditorium? It prevents them from ringing, and you can't call either or even send SMS.

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Christopher Duvall
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From: Denver, CO
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 - posted 11-16-2002 04:40 AM      Profile for Christopher Duvall   Email Christopher Duvall   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes there is, however, it would be illegal. The FCC would have a field day if such devices were used.

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
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From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 11-16-2002 06:28 AM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's called concrete. Lots and lots of concrete.

Apparently Bombardier is/has developed a method of applying thin coatings of some type of metal to train windows to prevent the use of cellular phones on them.


As for scambling signals in your auditoriums... the Fire Department might be a little upset when it can't page its volunteer fire fighters while they're at the show.


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Thomas Procyk
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From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA
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 - posted 11-16-2002 01:01 PM      Profile for Thomas Procyk   Email Thomas Procyk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How hard would it be to develop some sort of device that would detect a cell phone ring, or a cell phone signal when one is being used in an auditorium? When a cell phone goes off, it can trigger the automation to stop the show, bring up the house lights, and make an announcement:
"Ladies and Gentlemen: Due to a cell phone transmission in progress in this auditorium, we are unable to continue the show. Once all cell phone transmissions cease, the show will resume. Thank you for your cooperation."
And then have it repeat in Spanish.
It would happen frequently at first, but soon you would have people leaving their phones in their cars out of fear.

=TMP=

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

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From: Dallas, TX
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 - posted 11-16-2002 01:09 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
*sigh*

Remember the days when they were called car phones?

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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From: Lawton, OK, USA
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 - posted 11-16-2002 01:11 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not sure if there should really be any laws on the books banning the use of cellphones in particular places. But I do agree 100% with laws that ban the use of regular handheld cellphones while driving. Cellphone use is now as serious a problem as drunk driving when it comes to serious car accidents.

Management should be free to take action in restaurants, movie theaters and other places where cellphone use is a very rude disruption. For movie theaters, if someone's cellphone rings in the auditorium they should be removed from the theater. The only way phones should be tolerated at all is if they are in silent "vibrate" mode.

Some of the heat has to be applied to the cellphone companies themselves, those cheap-ass bastards. Yeah, that's right. They are cheap-ass.

Most cellphones do not come equipped with a silent vibrate mode. You have to spend more money for that add-on --and that's only if the cellphone model you have even supports it. Hell, most any pager has vibrate alert as a standard feature. It is totally backwards for cellphone companies not to put it in ALL cellphones.

All cellphones should come with handsfree talking sets. And something has to be done about making dialing numbers easy. One problem is the penchant for cellphone companies to make newer phones smaller and smaller. You have to have the fingers of a squirrel to hit the numbers on some of those keypads. And trying to dial numbers while driving is a very risky thing.

At any rate, if someone is on the road and needs to make a call he should probably pull over. If someone is going to take a phone call in the movie theater, he had better do it in the lobby or else he should be escorted out to the parking lot.

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Ian Price
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 - posted 11-16-2002 01:14 PM      Profile for Ian Price   Email Ian Price   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The libertarians are correct. There should be no such law. What there should be is a concerted effort to instill good manners in our society.

Personally I haven't been too bothered by cell phone interruptions. I find that most people do take care and go outside when talking on their cell phone. Every now and then there is someone in the bookshop yakking on his or her cell phone in a loud voice. I just glare and they move away from me.

1. If you must have your cell phone on in a restaurant, when it rings, leave the table and take the call in the lobby.

2. If you much have your cell phone on while riding on a train; take you call at the end of the carriage. (This is suggested on all of the English trains.)

3. If you must have your cell phone on in a book shop; ask the caller to wait a moment while you step outside.

4. If you must have your cell phone on in a movie theatre, put it on silent. When you receive a call, step outside and call them back.

5. Cell phones should be off in movie theatres, Film Festivals, plays, operas and ballets.

6. If you must be in touch, buy a phone that vibrates. Take your calls outside.

7. Feel free to ridicule those who violate these basic tenets.

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Sean M. Grimes
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 - posted 11-16-2002 01:45 PM      Profile for Sean M. Grimes   Author's Homepage   Email Sean M. Grimes   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually Bobby, only one cell phone manufaturer makes you pay for "vibra-call" nowadays, and that is Nokia. And that is only in the now discontinued 51** series and the Nokia 3285. Since going only part time in the Theater Business I have landed smack dab into the middle of the cell phone business. And in my personal opinion, cell phones should not even have ringers. They are rude, crude, things cell phone ringers, and imho they should be outlawed

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Gerard S. Cohen
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 - posted 11-16-2002 02:55 PM      Profile for Gerard S. Cohen   Email Gerard S. Cohen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
While I certainly agree social pressure is better than making rude behavior illegal and imposing penalties for violations, I do think
sometimes the law can lead and influence public pressure.
For example, the sidewalks of NYC used to be covered with dog feces
until the "pooper-scooper" law was passed and citations and fines were administered to dog walkers who failed to police their pets' potty procedures. Before, people were too hesitant and embarrassed to admonish thoughtless walkers, but knowing everyone knows about the law, bystanders--and property owners--are now quite willing to cite it in calling attention to the lapse of compliance. Now the sidewalks
are cleaner, and social pressure rules.

Similarly, the law prohibits blasting radios in public, and drivers turn down the volume when a police car passes, though unfortunately
they don't fear social ostracism from within their cocoon/vehicles when the officer is out of sight.

Knowing of a cell-phone law may cause offenders to recognize the need for courtesy. But if there are other more effective ways of mustering social compliance, I'd like to know what they might be.


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John Hawkinson
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 - posted 11-16-2002 07:01 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
An obvious choice (to my mind) is for cinema management to get together and forcibly eject patrons who allow telephones to ring.

I'm sure some do this, but it's also probably not realistic to try to do it in any consistent fashion; it's not as if there's someone in every house watching for such violators (capital-V Violators?), and it's like finding a needle in a haystack. So perhaps giving the rest of the audience some incentive to turn in those people is a good idea?


What would really be optimal would be a technological solution. Not jamming, but if a signal could be sent to cell phones to indicate "don't ring audibly if you can receive this signal." But it's probably not practical with today's technology. 4 different cell phone modulation/frequency pairs in common use in the US, and even if one of them had a way to indicate this (do any?), you'd need to support them all. Or I suppose you could add another frequency that all phones should listen to, regardless of whether they are GSM, CDMA1900, etc., but I doubt the manufacturers would go for that, since it means adding more hardware. On the gripping hand, perhaps you could do something with "high" power (1W?) output in the 2.4 GHz bluetooth band, since most new phones now support bluetooth (right?). Presumably such a thing would be a perversion of bluetooth and would effectively be a bluetooth jamming device in a theatre (too bad for the people who have bluetooth microphone/headsets for their phones...), due to the power, but at least it would be a common way to signal all the phones "don't ring here!".

Without such an additional receiver, you'd probably be stuck deploying n cells within the theatre (one for each technology...), and trying to set things up such that all phones within the theatre fall in one of the special cells that transmits the "don't ring" signal.

Maybe it's not so grim as that, though. I suppose you could envision a receiver that sits in the theatre and keeps track of all cell phones that it can hear (presumably carefully deployed such that it only has good coverage within the theatre), and then has a communications channel (landline, IP, etc.) to the cell phone providers and tells them "don't let this phone ring as long as I tell you it's still in this area," and then that information gets uploaded to the cell site the phone is associated with and it either sets a "don't ring audibly" bit, or simply doesn't accept incoming calls destined to the phone.

Oomph. pipe dream.

As somewhat of an aside, I don't believe that the FCC bans cell phone jamming as long as they are sufficiently narrow in scope (e.g. a private property owner can ensure that emissions from his jammer are -60dBm beyond the borders of his property, etc.).

--jhawk

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William Leland III
Master Film Handler

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From: Charleston, SC,
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 - posted 11-16-2002 07:10 PM      Profile for William Leland III   Author's Homepage   Email William Leland III   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On those slides that say, " Please turn off all cell phones and pagers".

They should also put," If your cell phone goes off or pager, you will be fined and asked to leave."


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Brad Miller
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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
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 - posted 11-16-2002 07:21 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
It would never work because of the bean counters, but stationing an usher in each auditorium on each show (probably just weekends) would be one hell of a great incentive to visit a particular theater. When a cell phone rings, the usher gives that person 5 to maybe 10 seconds to say "hang on" and walk outside the auditorium. If more than 2 sentences are spoken, the usher evicts the patron from the theater without a refund of any kind. If the patron starts in on the usher, get the manager or security guard. Really, this would only happen for a few weeks. People WOULD get the point.

Of course this should be implemented into the policy trailer: "if your cellular phone rings during the movie, you must immediately take the call outside of the auditorium or you will be evicted without a refund from the theater complex."

The funniest part would be all the staff complaining. Know how *most* theaters the staff complains "no I want to work box" or "I don't want to work the stand tonight" and such? At first everyone would be hollering to "watch the movie", but soon...very, very soon they would be complaining "no, please no, not that stupid movie again!"


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John Hawkinson
Film God

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From: Cambridge, MA, USA
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 - posted 11-16-2002 07:26 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can't tell, Brad, if you're suggesting that people should be allowed to have their phones ring audibly if they take the call outside. I think that's far too lenient.

But with that proviso, sure, what you say would be reasonable.

Another way to make this work would be to get a device that passively monitors what cell phones are nearby (should be easy enough), and then actually calls them (during the trailers) with a message of "This is testing to see if your cell phone is actually on during the movie. If your phone rings audibly, you will be ejected." It could call just a small sample of the total set of phones to get the point across.

Then, an usher can activate the device and go into the room and eject all the patron whose phones answer. It would also serve to gently remind patrons that their phones are on if they forgot to turn them off, and to show that the theatre is actually cracking down.

--jhawk


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Scott Norwood
Film God

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From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
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 - posted 11-16-2002 09:11 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've been wanting an ejection-seat trailer for years. Loews now actually has a wimped-down version of this, where the phone-user gets ejected into the screen, rather than through the roof of the building.

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