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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » bulk tape eraser recommandations (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: bulk tape eraser recommandations
Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-05-2002 09:02 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know this is a bit off topic for Film-Tech, but I'm sure that I'll get some good responses here, so....

I'm in the market for a bulk tape eraser. This will be for 1/4" audio tape on 10" and 7" reels as well as radio "carts." It would be nice if it worked on videotape, cassettes, DAT, DLT, etc., but none of these are critical. Cheap is good. This is for occasional home use, not full-time professional use. What should I buy? Is there anything to avoid buying?

I've been borrowing a little handheld model that works OK, but now I'd like to purchase something for myself.


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James R. Hammonds, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 931
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 11-05-2002 09:20 PM      Profile for James R. Hammonds, Jr   Email James R. Hammonds, Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
get one like the ones they used in Fight Club.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-05-2002 09:38 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
The Rat Shack makes one for about $20 that does the job. It's not perfect, but it works. I've used it before and found that I commonly had to do it twice to completely erase everything. Obviously I prefer the professional models that look like a bulk candy scale, but it sounds like the $20 one will suit you just fine. Do note the Rat Shack model has a limited service time. Something like 15 seconds on and a minute off.


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 11-05-2002 09:53 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I never had much faith in bulk erasers. They generally leave "something behind." That in itself is no big deal, because the erase heads in both reel-to-reel and cassette machines will clean it up during the recording session of new material.

However, bulk erasers for carts are a different story. There is no erase heads I know of in BE and ITC Cart Decks, and I am sure that condition probably exists with other manufacturers as well.

For cart bulk erasers, I usually seen the best results obtained from those that look like a clothes iron. If those styles are used, move the eraser further away from the cart before securing the power so the flux field will not leave its impression on the tape. Otherwise, you will hear a low-key "shhh shhh shhh" during quiet spots on the tape.

As a passing thought, keep the heads clean and in perfect alignment. If not, the machines may never see the Sec tone, the Tertiary tone, or the Stop tone. It is a total disaster if the "stop tone" is not read properly. The machine will continue to cycle until it sees the tone, or until the machine is manually shut down.

All three tones are recorded on a separate track from the audio. If the heads are out of alignment, you might hear the tones in the audio, and other tones from the audio track might be heard by the control logic causing false shutdowns and false triggering of an on-coming cart machine.

Cart decks are great Hi-Fidelity machines....but they require much more TLC in servicing and cleaning than the average reel-to-reel or cassette.



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Gordon McLeod
Film God

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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
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 - posted 11-05-2002 11:58 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
MagnaSync made a great one and I think MTE now makes the same unit contact ICECO in miami

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
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 - posted 11-06-2002 09:05 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I bulk my tapes using an old loudspeaker field coil (from the days when loudspeakers didn't have permanent magnets). Powered by 220 VAC, the magnetic flux density is so strong that it's tough to pull the tape away from it! Use is limited to about 5 minutes, as it starts to heat up.
here Field Coils

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

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From: Mount Vernon WA USA
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 - posted 11-06-2002 11:30 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott, if you can get a eraser/splice finder for the carts, do so. You'll never regret it. The eraser portion works well for cassettes, too. Just stuff it in there and push the button. You'll know when it is done.

The eraser electronics is almost as strong as an armature growler.

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
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 - posted 11-06-2002 12:06 PM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I never had a problem with the old Fidelipac erasers. They were heavy-duty tabletop models, with a plexiglas guide on the edge, to bulk carts. The trick is to slowly pull the cart away on the last swipe, before you release the button. That's effectively what the splice-finder/erasers do; they ramp the voltage down on the erase coil after a few seconds, leaving a nice, thumpless "bulk".

The Fidelipacs should be available on the used market, I would think, since cart useage has waned in broadcast.

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John Pytlak
Film God

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From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
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 - posted 11-06-2002 12:28 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My technique with the AC-energized field coil is to wipe the cassette in a circular motion around the center of the energized coil for a few seconds, then flip the cassette and wipe again. Then slowly pull the cassette away from the magnetic field with the same circular motion. You can actually feel the cassette held by the strong vibrating magnetic field.

The field is so strong that I get noticeable deflections and color impurity on a CRT display a few feet away. (The field coil makes a great degaussing coil too).

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

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From: Mount Vernon WA USA
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 - posted 11-06-2002 10:57 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tim said:
quote:
"The trick is to slowly pull the cart away on the last swipe, before you release the button. That's effectively what the splice-finder/erasers do; they ramp the voltage down on the erase coil after a few seconds, leaving a nice, thumpless "bulk".

Tim is absolutely correct.

John said:

quote:
"My technique with the AC-energized field coil is to wipe the cassette in a circular motion around the center of the energized coil for a few seconds, then flip the cassette and wipe again. Then slowly pull the cassette away from the magnetic field with the same circular motion."

John's method is very effective if you are not blessed with the bulk erasers such as Tim and I suggested.

I always get a laugh out of these guys who slam the tape down, turn on the power, shove it around for a few seconds, turn off the power, and then pick up the tape. They they scratch their lower posterior trying to figure out why all the "thumps" and "shhh shhhh shhh" noises are still on the tape!

As I look at John's quote, It could have a whole new meaning if it read like this:

quote:
"My technique is to wipe in a circular motion around the center for a few seconds, then flip and wipe again. Then slowly pull away with the same circular motion."

John, that sounds like a wad of toilet paper doing its job with the Klingons encircling Uranus in Star Trek.


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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 11-07-2002 09:28 AM      Profile for Bruce McGee   Email Bruce McGee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
FWIW: The Ampex owners group recently had a discussion on this subject.

Some degaussers can leave sub-auditory 'thumps' in the oxide on the tape that the erase heads on the vcr/reel to reel/cassette deck cant possibly begin to remove/reshape. This means that there may be some degradation in the recording.

They never really decided what type of degausser was the best.

We have a big one at work (30 amps, 220 volts) that pulls the medium through on a conveyer belt. When it comes out the exit side, I flip it over, and run it through again. The end.

I can possibly get the information off of it this weekend if anyone is interested.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
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 - posted 11-07-2002 12:59 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bruce, please do so. It might be helpful.

I have also observed the phenomena you discribe....I just thought it was improper bulking techniques. I guess I was wrong.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-07-2002 01:25 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Who decided that cart machines don't need erase heads, anyway? It seems odd, since every other type of tape recorder that I have ever seen has them....

Anyway, thanks for the recommendations so far; please keep them coming.

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 11-07-2002 08:04 PM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul quoted:
quote:
wipe in a circular motion around the center for a few seconds, then flip and wipe again.

I'm ROLLING!
Also, I apologize, Paul. The description of my "technique" is essentially the same thing you said earlier.

YES! I remember that same guy, whose spots always went "shh-shh-shh"! He never had a clue!

Bruce, yes, that'd be interesting to see the conveyor belt jobbie. I remember seeing ads for those things. Always looked like they could double as microwave ovens, and at 30 A, maybe they could!

Scott said,

quote:
Who decided that cart machines don't need erase heads, anyway?

Scott, as far as I can tell, they never had erase heads in order to force bulk erasing, because carts are of differing lengths (and often, more than one cut is recorded on a single cart). That way, you couldn't have a short recording made on a longer cart, with the end of an earlier recording remaining present.

I'm hypothesizing, of course.

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Better Projection Pays!


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 11-07-2002 11:29 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What Tim says is true. That method was used for Liners and Sweepers which made it very handy for the "Go-Cart" machines such as what IGM made along with other companys. However, we never recorded more than one spot per cart.

I might add that since the cart decks were not equipped with erase heads, it allowed for some voice or music lay-overs. That might be another reason why....I don't know.

I just fixed the damn things, I never ran them.


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