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Author Topic: Measurement Standards
Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-20-2002 11:15 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does the statement, "We've always done it that way" ring any bells...?

The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number.

Why was that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in England, and English expatriates built the US Railroads.

Why did the English build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used.

Why did "they" use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.

Okay! Why did the wagons have that particular odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would break on some of the old, long distance roads in England, because that's the spacing of the wheel ruts.

So who built those old rutted roads? Imperial Rome built the first long distance roads in Europe (and England) for their legions. The roads have been used ever since.

And the ruts in the roads? Roman war chariots formed the initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagon wheels. Since the chariots were made for Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing.

The United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is derived from the original specifications for an Imperial Roman war chariot. And bureaucracies live forever.

So the next time you are handed a spec and told we have always done it that way and wonder what horse's ass came up with that, you may be exactly right, because the Imperial Roman war chariots were made just wide enough to accommodate the back ends of two war horses.

Now the twist to the story...

When you see a Space Shuttle sitting on its launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made by Thiokol at their factory in Utah. The engineers who designed the SRBs would have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site.

The railroad line from the factory happens to run through a tunnel in the mountains. The SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the railroad track, as you now know, is about as wide as two horses' behinds.

So, a major Space Shuttle design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined over two thousand years ago by the width of a Horse's ass.

And you thought being a horse's ass wasn't important ??



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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-20-2002 11:35 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
HILARIOUS! And yet even today there are plenty of things in today's projection rooms that are designed or set up in a less than ideal manner because "it's always been done that way."

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Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 09-20-2002 11:36 PM      Profile for Rick Long   Email Rick Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know what you mean, Paul. Reminds me of the time when i went to figure out howcome we use 110/60 when the rest of the world uses 240/50.

In any event, I never felt unimportant, just a horse's ass.

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 09-21-2002 12:19 AM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hilarious in its own right, but even more so because every word of it is true. Rest assured this is not an 'urban legend.'

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-21-2002 07:46 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well I'll take our 60Hz to the rest of the world's 50Hz...they are just plain wrong!

Now as to we've always done it that way....

Take theatre lenses...

The barrel diameter is 70.6mm. Now wait the metric system wasn't in vogue back then so it is rational to think that it wouldn't fall on an even millimeter.

So what is it in english units? 2-25/32! it isn't even a nice number for that! Who came up with that size? Call it 3" or 2.75" But 2.78125" How did they "agree" on that size?

At least when the 50s hit and new big-boy lenses were needed for the extra light we settled on a nice rosey 4" number.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 09-21-2002 11:32 AM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We went with 60 Hz specifically to be different so as to encourage domestically made equipment. BTW, nominal consumer voltage here is 120 (although people still refer to 110-115 and no doubt that's what some folks get) while Europe's former 220 was raised to 230 a while back.

I took a DMM along on my last trip to Europe
just for the fun of seeing it say 50 Hz

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 09-21-2002 12:33 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Or one can have their current both ways (no not AC/DC). In Japan the western half gets 60Hz, the eastern half 50Hz... at 100V. No steenking ground wire either. Weird.

BTW does the concept of precision in measurements and calculations get taught in science classes these days? Cracks me up when calculations are carried out to nine decimal places even though the original measurements feeding those calculations are only reliable to two or three (e.g. the 70mm AR arguments in Widescreen Review a few years ago).

Regards,

Paul

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-21-2002 03:47 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, Paul. That was great!

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-22-2002 01:28 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That would be termed "significant figures"(aka sig-figs) Paul.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Dick Vaughan
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1032
From: Bradford, West Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 09-23-2002 06:23 AM      Profile for Dick Vaughan   Author's Homepage   Email Dick Vaughan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve K said: "Europe's former 220 was raised to 230 a while back"

Of course we in the UK lowered our nominal 240V to 230 to meet the continental Europeans.

However in the UK the allowable range is 230V -5%/+10% and continental Europe uses 230V -10%/+5% but soon we again will "harmonise" to 230V +/- 10% giving a range of 207 - 253 V

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 09-23-2002 07:11 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've often thought that 120 volts is far more sensible because you'd probably stand a much better chance of surviving or avoiding serious injury after receiving an accidental shock.

As for railways... I say tear 'em up and tarmac them over! I've often thought that they were a nineteenth-century solution to a twenty-first century problem: now I hear that they are a Roman solution to a twenty-first century problem! Promoting railways as the way to solve our transport needs is like promoting Victorian hygiene practices to improve public health. Just some of the reasons why they're a totally obsolete technology:


  • The trains go no faster than they did 100 years ago. OK, it's technically possible to build ones that do (e.g. the French TGV), but the sheer cost of this is out of all proportion to the economic and social benefits the trains bring.
  • Their brakes are so shitty that trains have to travel several miles apart. The brakes on cars are so good that (assuming the driver is competent) they can safely cruise at 70mph with only 150 yards between each vehicle. This means that the level of land utilisation on land used for railways is hopelessly uneconomic.
  • Trains are getting more dangerous. The proportion of total rail journeys which end in the passenger being killed or injured is on the increase. Again, there are technical solutions which would bring this rate down, but at a huge cost. According to an article I read recently, the foolproof train protection system which stops drivers from shooting the lights would cost around £1,000 per passenger at current levels.
  • Trains are inflexible. You have to travel when someone tells you, not when it is convenient for you to go.
  • Trains are f***ing expensive. Unless you are prepared to book a long time in advance and go at a highly inconvenient time, it costs roughly twice what it would to go by car, taking into account all motoring costs. And if more than one person is travelling, just forget it! If you consider that trains are highly subsidised and that motoring is highly taxed, the true differential is even greater.
  • Trains are even more f***ing unreliable. Enough said.
  • Travelling in them is about the unpleasant experience possible, (apart, possibly, from being executed in an underpowered electric chair). You usually have to share a carriage with antisocial yobs, screaming babies and aggressive dogs.

The main problem with private transportation is environmental damage. Even there, we've come a long way. Today's engines push out about 20% of the Co2 emissions that their equivalents did two decades ago. BMW have recently produced a prototype hydrogen-powered car. What we should be doing is pouring money into private vehicles powered by renewable energy, not down the drain and onto a railway track. They would also make us less dependant on Middle East oil, and we could then leave psychos like Saddam and Bin Liner to kill each other without bothering us. In today's society, we need the flexibility of private cars to support the economy and social cohesion - there's no going back. We can't continue much longer with the internal combustion engine in its current form, but railways should have been got rid of years ago.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-23-2002 01:28 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Leo, I take it you don't like trains??

I do agree, passenger trains suck!

Freight trains are cool. If you think about it, what other mode of transportation for cargo is more efficient than a freight train? About three or four V-16 Diesel Locomotives to drag a mile of freight cars loaded to the gills down a set of tracks at 79 miles per hour sounds like a good deal to me.....


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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 09-23-2002 05:16 PM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Love trains...the only way to fly As a teenager in the late 1960's I worked on a private train which traveled through the mid-west and Western Canada during the summer. The high point was a derailment on the main transcontinental line in Canada which we where stranded for 30 hours while the repair train crews came in from Calgary and Edmonton. In my office I have a model of that train on a display shelf. Great train rides in "on time" Europe....the Banff / Canadian Rockies two day ride....the Alaskan trains....climb to the summit in Hong Kong, all great. The worst...Christmas Holiday on a packed train in Italy, and of course, English trains
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-23-2002 07:34 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Trains as a passenger device are on thin ice but for freight? The absolutely most efficient way to move cargo. Truck the goods to the train depot...train it where it needs to go...truck it to the final destination. Eliminate the need for interstate trucking and thereby cut down on interstate congestion.

Trains are a 24 hour medium...for cargo and it is easy to keep a fresh crew operating them unlike poor truckers that have to make as many A-B deliveries to pay off CAT for their outragous parts.

As to renewable energy...you are gonna have to change what we know about the physical properties of those to make them work. Virtually all of the earth friendly vehicles are trading one ill for another and are in fact, not so earth friendly. LNG is an intriquing one but keeping it safe is another thing. Solar isn't efficient enough and ANYTHING that uses a battery is a feel-good pro-environment item...batteries are not terribly efficient and always involve metals. Anything that involves plugging the car in is horrible since you either have coal polution or neuclear waste to contend with.

Believe me, I think we should try and try to come up with something other than oil based engines (also horribly inefficient) but thus far, everything else isn't good either.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 09-23-2002 08:45 PM      Profile for Will Kutler   Email Will Kutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Leo has a lot of opinionated info regarding rail travel!

In the United States up through the late 1950's, rail travel was the most common source of transportation. It was in the post-war era that G.M. and Standard Oil went throughout the U.S. and purchased/dismantled most major mass transit systems so that they could build highways and sell cars...what a mess this has become!

Little by little major citys across the U.S. are recognizing just how much light rail has rectified traffic problems and systems are now being restored.

I am a licensed Streetcar Motorman/Conductor and Dispatcher as I was a volunteer with Old Pueblo Trolley in Tucson, AZ.

As far as passenger service being efficient...just look at what the Japenese have done with the famous Bullet Train...and there has never been an accident.

The reason for the likes of Amtrack not being successful...$$ and politics!...good ole government!

Cargo travel by rail is the best solution...but safety is a must and is sometimes compromised by corporate greed!

I did use rail travel in England and was quite impressed. Actually, I was easily and effeciently able to do much traveling through using the bus service and rail travel together...many of the public bus systems in the U.S. are a freakin joke...in Tucson your are screwed w/o a car...as Suntran is...well....

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