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Topic: Todd-AO

John Schulien
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 206
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-12-2002 03:16 PM

I know that this process was named for Michael Todd, but it just occurred to me that I have no idea what the "AO" stands for. Is it an abbreviation? Anyone know?

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Paul Cassidy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 549
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 08-12-2002 03:29 PM

American Optical Co.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 08-12-2002 03:40 PM

Here's a great history of Todd-AO:

http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/wingto1.htm

And lots on Thomas Hauerslev's website:
http://hjem.get2net.dk/in70mm/magazine/diverse/todd_ao_index.htm

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 08-12-2002 04:16 PM

The first time I saw a film produced in Todd-AO was "OKLAHOMA" but I had to watch the CinemaScope version because no theatre in Hawaii at that time was set up for 70mm and Consolidated who was not part of Pacific Theatres, did not want to invest a large amount of money to invest in the large film format at that time. All of that changed when Henry J. Kaiser worked out a deal with Mike Todd to screen the exclusive Hawaii showing of "AROUND THE WORL IN 80 DAYS" in a special dome Theatre that Kaiser built for the presentation on the grounds of the Hilton Hawaiian Village and the movie was presented in 70mm Todd AO there. Wanting to get even, Consolidated signed a contract with Cinerama to screen all of their three panel films at the long defunct Princess Theatre in downtown Honolulu. I saw all of the Cinerama films there and they were all awesome. "When the next Todd AO film, SOUTH PACIFIC" was released, Consolidated had made sure to equip the Kuhio Theatre where "OKLAHOMA" played in 35mm with the full blown 70mm hardware for the engagement. Part of the reason for putting it in was the fact that almost all of the movie was filmed in Hawaii on the island of Kauai and there was a special local premiere with a large part of the cast and production people coming to Hawaii for it. By the way, for many of you who do not know it, the Todd AO version of "OKLAHOMA" was shot in 30fps and that is the reason why the film was also photographed in CinemaScope in 24fps. "AROUND THE WORLD IN 80 DAYS' was a little different because the movie was photographed in 65mm Todd-AO in both 30fps and 24fps.

-Claude

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Dave Williams
Wet nipple scene

Posts: 1836
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 08-12-2002 04:25 PM

If I am not mistaken, wasn't THE SOUND OF MUSIC produced in TODD-AO?

Dave

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Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 08-12-2002 04:35 PM

Yes

Fox who produced and released "THE SOUND OF MUSIC", released almost all of their 70mm films in Todd AO with the exception of "THE BIBLE" and "PATTON" which were both photographed in Dimension 150.

The TODD AO films include "STAR", DR. DOLITTLE" with Rex Harrison, "THE SAND PEBBLES". "HELLO DOLLY", "THE AGONY & THE ECSTASY", "CLEOPATRA" & "CAN-CAN" based on my memory. There might have been a couple more but I remember these because they are favorites of mine. Here is a very interesting tidbit regarding TODD AO and Fox. I had learned from the commentary on the "CLEOPATRA" DVD, Elizabeth Taylor had insisted that her late husband's (Mike Todd) TODD AO process was used for the film as part of her contract agreement with Fox.

-Claude

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Per Hauberg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 883
From: Malling, Denmark
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 08-12-2002 05:11 PM

SAN PEBBLES is Panavision - blow up from 35mm negative.
Nice, -but blow-up !

Per

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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-12-2002 05:14 PM

Claude

The Sand Pebbles was a 35mm anamorphic (Panavision) production blown up to 70mm for roadshowing.

A full list of Todd-AO productions can be found on the Widescreen Museum site that John Pytlak linked.

Todd-AO basically morphed from it's 30fps 128 degree screen presentation to a 24fps screen with various curves, many at a lot less than the original. Dimension 150 was essentially (as far as the viewing audience was concerned) a revised Todd-AO format. Better optics, perhaps, but a return to the deep screen nature of the original Todd-AO specs (or close to it).

I think the Cleopatra being shot in Todd-AO had more to do with Fox's majority ownership in the process than Elizabeth Taylor once owning a part of it. Fox shot most of their big roadshow films in the format, including Can-Can (the Todd-AO version of South Pacific was distributed by Magna), The Agony and the Ecstacy, Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines, Sound of Music, Star!, Doctor Dolittle, Hello, Dolly. Also, the two D-150 films (some call it the new todd-AO, some of the same players involved) The Bible and Patton.

As a matter of fact, Fox seemed to be the studio who kept the format going through most of the 60's. The first two Todd-AO films not roadshowed (and the last two released) were Airport and The Last Valley. John Wayne also shot his epic The Alamo in Todd-AO (through UA distribution), and Samuel Goldwyn's Porgy and Bess was released through Columbia.

Little known fact: although credited as Super Panavision 70, much of the special effects work for 2001 was shot with Todd-AO cameras. Numerous other movies have used these cameras (and new designs) as well for special effects work. The last movie to be credited as Todd-AO was Baraka.

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Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 08-12-2002 05:22 PM

Paul, You are correct about "THE SAND PEBBLES" and yes I do recall Robert Wise had shot the film in anamorphic Panavision and released the film as a "blow Up" 70mm road show presentation. By the way, "AIRPORT" was not released by Fox but by Universal Pictures. It is very interesting that the score from the movie was by a long time music score composer at Fox, Alfred Newman and I understand it was his last.

-Claude

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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-12-2002 05:47 PM

Claude

I should have clarified that by spliting the paragraph. I meant to distinguish Fox Tod-AO films that were roadshowed by the last two from studios who had dropped roadshowing. The Last Valley was also not a Fox film, but an ABC presentation through Cinerama releasing.

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 08-14-2002 04:01 AM

Claude,
if the movies you mentioned were SHOT in two different formats with different frame rates, does that mean that they had two sets of cameras? The two versions would then have slightly different camera angles. I know that "The Robe" was shot with two sets of equipment because the movie was already under way when they bought the process from Chrétien.
Michael

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Peter Kerchinsky
Master Film Handler

Posts: 326
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 08-14-2002 04:26 AM

Howdy
My understanding is that OKLAHOMA was shot both in 70MM Todd-AO and 35mm Scope because Mike Todd did not think theatres we going to be willing to convert all for one movie and that it would affect revenue.
The laserdisc I saw recently of OKLAHOMA was a 70MM Todd-AO transfer and looks like a completely different movie than the 35 version. That's because it is.
I saw OKLAHOMA in 70MM Todd-AO in Boston first run and it was, to say the least, spectacular.
Have a beautiful morning.

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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 08-14-2002 08:48 AM

Another problem was the optical printing from 65mm 30fps to 35mm
24 fps. The labs had no optical printer to convert Todd-AO. They
fixed the problems at the lab, while "Around the World in 80 Days" was in production. "Around the World in 80 Days" started with two
units a Todd-AO unit and a CinemaScope unit. The CinemaScope unit
was discarded.

If you look at the old Fox video boxes for "Hello Dolly", you will
see a typo Produced by Todd AO. should have read Produced in Todd-AO.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 08-14-2002 09:18 AM

The 30 fps frame rate of the original Todd-AO productions ("Oklahoma" and "Around the World in 80 Days") greatly improved the rendition of motion and reduced apparent "strobing" of the image, important for the large screens and close viewing distances allowed by the format. But the need for having 24 fps 35mm prints for general release and the hassles of shooting with two different frame rates led to all subsequent feature releases being 24 fps.

BTW, higher frame rates also allow higher levels of screen luminance before shutter flicker becomes apparent with normal 2-blade shutters.

BTW, the original frame rate for 3-strip Cinerama was 26 fps.; 24 fps was used for the last two features.

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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 08-14-2002 11:01 AM

I have VHS copies of both the Todd-AO, and CinemaScope versions of "Oklahoma!" and they are different movies. The lines are the same, but they are very different. For an example, in the song, "Surrey With A Fringe On Top," the principals are sitting and singing. A small white moth crosses across the screen in the cinemascope (and flat) version. This does not happen in the Todd-AO version.

I saw the Goldwyn Company release of this title in 70mm 30 fps in 1983, and when I told people that the films were different, I was told that I was NUTS. Now, it's fairly common knowledge.

Watching Oklahoma! in 70mm makes it look like you are viewing the film through a mirror! Wow. 70mm ROCKS!!!

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