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Author Topic: Digital SIGNS
Mike Schindler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1039
From: Oak Park, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 08-01-2002 01:22 AM      Profile for Mike Schindler   Email Mike Schindler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I noticed that SIGNS is being released digitally. I have a few questions about this. First, does anyone know whether or not Shyamalan approves of this, or does he prefer film? Secondly, has a live-action film ever been released digitally with a 1.85:1 aspect ratio, or is this the first? Thirdly, what happens when SPY KIDS 2, which was shot digitally, is released later this week? Is Rodriguez just shit out of luck, or is there some sort of wierd deal going on since they're both Disney movies? And finally, does a digitally-projected 1.85 image have greater resolution than a 2.39 image, or vice versa, or are they both the same? Thanks.

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Aaron Haney
Master Film Handler

Posts: 265
From: Cupertino, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 08-01-2002 02:19 AM      Profile for Aaron Haney   Email Aaron Haney   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The answer to your second question (other live action 1.85 movies shown digitally), is no, "Signs" is not the first. "102 Dalmations" was shown in DLP, and it was a live action 1.85:1 film.

The answer your last question is: the resolution of DLP-based projectors is the same for both aspect ratios (at least for all the DLP machines that have been released so far). The native resolution of the projector is 1280x1024, with square pixels, so the native aspect ratio is 1.25:1. That means there is a 1.5X anamorphic lens used to achieve the 1.85:1 aspect ratio, and a 1.9X anamorphic lens to achieve the 2.39:1 aspect ratio. For the latter, the pixels are stretched out pretty wide, which exaggerates the gap between them. I find the effect to be a bit like looking through vertical blinds.

I didn't know "Spy Kids 2" was shot digitally -- thanks for mentioning that. According to IMDb, it was shot with HD 24p (and not the horrible miniDV format).


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Mike Schindler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1039
From: Oak Park, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 08-01-2002 03:13 AM      Profile for Mike Schindler   Email Mike Schindler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"For the latter, the pixels are stretched out pretty wide, which exaggerates the gap between them. I find the effect to be a bit like looking through vertical blinds."

So that's what that is. That always bothered me, and I couldn't figure out what it was. Thanks for the info.

Also, FYI, Rodriguez' next movie, DESPERADO 2: ONCE UPON A TIME IN MEXICO was also shot digitally.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-01-2002 03:46 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Is anyone else feeling the need to puke the next time the "D" word is used? Come on people. Let's refer to it like what it is: "shot on video" or "videotaped" or "video projection". We have to endure enough of the "D" word as it is in regards to sound systems, platters and everything else in this world as it is.

(I actually thought this thread was going to be about those red led marquee signs.)

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Dave Williams
Wet nipple scene

Posts: 1836
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-01-2002 05:32 AM      Profile for Dave Williams   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Williams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's true that Once Upon A Time In Mexico was shot digitally, it is not necessarily Desperado 2, but actually, El Mariachi 3.

El Mariachi was a fantastic film, shot on 16mm, which by the way has much better charactarsitics than 24p HD video. First, the resolution is better, the color depth, the contrast, and yes its cheaper than shooting with video, and the resultant costs in coversion to film.

If its costs for them, then just shoot 16mm, Kodak has a very impressive line of film for that medium.

Dave

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-01-2002 08:25 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would be afraid to use the current crop of DLPs on SIGNS...this film is DARK...and I mean REALLY DARK. DLPs have a hard time with dark...seem to loose detail and increase grain.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Mike Schindler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1039
From: Oak Park, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 08-01-2002 10:12 AM      Profile for Mike Schindler   Email Mike Schindler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dave,
It's true that ONCE UPON A TIME IN MEXICO is the third in the series, and that calling it DESPERADO 2 is dumb as all hell, but unfortunately, that is the official title.

Also, the reason for shooting the film digitally was not cost. It's because Rodriguez is absolutely in love with the 24P camera. He actually bought one for himself, and he's said that he'll never shoot another movie on film again.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-01-2002 05:11 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I would be afraid to use the current crop of DLPs on SIGNS...this film is DARK...and I mean REALLY DARK. DLPs have a hard time with dark...seem to loose detail and increase grain.

Good! Then it will look like crap and maybe the digital train will lose a bit of steam...

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 08-01-2002 05:42 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, DLP (or rather the video compression engine used) does not do well with dark live-action photography. Does anyone remember how bad the DLP shows of "The Perfect Storm" looked?

I agree with Brad's point of view regarding the "D" thing, and have been referring to those shows as to what they really are: video. A feature shot with HD cameras is videotaped, not filmed. It is really a sticking point with me on terminology. One might be able to still use the term "movie" for features like "Full Frontal" but that show is definitely not a "film".

I remember when I was in the TV broadcast business and people would use the word "film" loosely when what I had on my shoulder was a Sony BetacamSP field videotape camera. A lot of times I would pop off the correction, "it is tape and not film" but try not to do it in a derogatory toned manner.

Of course, the term "video" has a negative connotation in terms of sophistication. The term video camera can be just as easily applied to a home consumer camcorder as a high end professional unit. But both are essentially that, just like a little home Super8 camera and Panavision Platinum model are both film cameras. The use of the term "digital cinema" and "digital projection" are just marketing dodges to keep people from drawing the conclusion they are only watching a larger, more expensive TV set.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-02-2002 06:33 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When I helped with an DLP installation for EP:2 this summer, they had a Sony DFP-3000 processor. I renamed the button on the 3000 from "Aux 2" to "TV"....It got a laugh...then they had me change it to "DCinema"

Steve

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Charles Everett
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: New Jersey
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 08-02-2002 07:48 AM      Profile for Charles Everett   Email Charles Everett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
DLP locations for Signs in the NYC metro are the Edgewater Multiplex, UA Farmingdale and Loews Jersey Gardens (none in NYC proper).

Mike S: Spy Kids 2 is being released through Dimension, the B-movie imprint of Miramax.

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Mike Schindler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1039
From: Oak Park, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 08-02-2002 09:47 AM      Profile for Mike Schindler   Email Mike Schindler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
" Spy Kids 2 is being released through Dimension, the B-movie imprint of Miramax."

Yeah, but if you go high enough, doesn't all of the money end up in the same place, or are Miramax and the other Disney companies separated from each other, like Warner Bros. and New Line?

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 08-03-2002 11:07 PM      Profile for Michael Coate   Email Michael Coate   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
has a live-action film ever been released digitally with a 1.85:1 aspect ratio

In addition to the previously mentioned 102 DALMATIANS and SIGNS, I'm aware of the following:

BICENTENNIAL MAN
BOUNCE
CATS & DOGS
JURASSIC PARK III
MISS CONGENIALITY
PAY IT FORWARD
SCOOBY-DOO
SPY KIDS
VERTICAL LIMIT

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Mike Schindler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1039
From: Oak Park, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 08-03-2002 11:57 PM      Profile for Mike Schindler   Email Mike Schindler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow! That's a lot of movies. I was thinking there were only 2 or 3. Thanks Michael.


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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 08-04-2002 12:14 AM      Profile for Michael Coate   Email Michael Coate   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You're welcome.

The Digital Cinema list is even larger than some might expect when you factor in the live-action scope titles.

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