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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Airline security is a farce gone too far (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Airline security is a farce gone too far
Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-27-2002 07:59 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jerry Pournelle of science fiction and cmputer fame will no longer fly on commercial airlines. He states very clearly that he would probably get himself arrested for making remarks to the minimum wage gestapo doing security checks.

I no longer fly for this and other reasons. For you folks planning to fly to Showest, read this to see how you could be treated.

quote:
FOSS: Well, you see, when I got to the airport, I planned on just going through as I normally have in the past. But they had this mass of checkers back there that seemed to hone in on me.

I had on a Western hat, which I normally wear, and this tie, which is known as a bolo tie, and a belt buckle that says, "Dakota Gun Collectors," on it and Western boots.

CAFFERTY: They eventually wound up taking the Congressional Medal of Honor away from you, didn't they, at the airport?



This whole "security" charade is over-the-top. If airlines are suffering from lost revenues and require government bail-outs, one would think that more sane security regulations could be determined and enforced.

The 911 hijackers only had box knives. A person trained in martial arts needs no visible weapon. Locking a reinforced cabin door, thoroughly checking checked and carry-on baggage, and scanning for major weapons seems prudent. Going after nail files and medals of honor is just friggin' ridiculous.


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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-27-2002 08:48 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here's a point...

The guys that hijacked the planes chose Logan, not because it had loose security, but because it is one of only two airports that have planes that make transcontinental flights from the east coast.

1) Laguardia
2) Logan

Hence, they will have full tanks when taking off. (Make more fire when they crash.)

They didn't pick Laguardia because it was too close to the intended target. They couldn't get out of the traffic pattern soon enough to home in on their targets properly.

As lax as security may be at some airports, what the government is doing now only amounts to "closing the barn door after the horse is out."

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 02-27-2002 08:55 PM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Airline security is a tough nut. Some of the measures currently in effect are aimed mostly at boosting public perception that flying is safe. Whether these policies make sense or not can be debated, but I can't see anyone standing up and saying publicly that nail files will be permitted again because banning them is silly. At some level, a game is being played with us and we all have to play along, or not fly. If they backtrack now, you can bet there will be an outcry about lax security (whatever that really means). I dunno. I play the game, nothing they are doing bothers me in the least, and the personnel I've dealt with have all been polite and just doing their jobs under difficult (maybe dumb) conditions.

------------------
- dave
Look at this! His chin strap has been cut!

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-27-2002 10:05 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What security? All airport grounds are still wide open places.......
Mark

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-27-2002 11:33 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"At some level, a game is being played with us and we all have to play along, or not fly."

Excuse me? Are these the only two options? I'm reminded of a favorite psychological trick used with children to make them think they have a say in self-determination... "OK, you can have a cookie OR you can watch tv but not both, you choose."

You can fly, but every time you fly you can ALSO send a note of protest to an airline or senator. You can call an airline ready to place a reservation and then ask the question "Are you still checking for nail files?" When the answer is yes, you can cancel out. You can write a letter to the editor. You can complain on a public forum. You can privately hire a pilot and get personal service while he or she gets to add flying hours. You can claim under the ADA that you have obsessive compulsive disorder and that a nail file on a plane is "reasonable accomodation." You can ask that no people who have studied martial arts be allowed to fly on the same plane as you.
You can become part of a group of people that demand change or you can obey ever increasing restictions on freedom.

I'll play along with some reasonable and sane restrictions (although never try to take my right to bear arms away). I refuse to play along with personal intrusions and militaristic attitudes that have no logic to back them up. Such antics are invariably jingoistic, socialistic, or otherwise play into the hands of those undeserving of power.

Just my opinion...

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-28-2002 12:04 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would be happy to support increased security if I thought that what was being done would actually improve safety. That is not the case with the "improvements" which have been made since last fall, which seem to do very little besides slow things down and annoy people.

When I flew from PVD to BWI in November, I found it both amusing and depressing that the security guards spent several minutes inspecting a can of shaving cream, but didn't even touch my laptop or any number of other items which are more potentially dangerous.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-28-2002 12:50 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It has been 6 years since I have attended Sho-West. I have no intention on flying anywhere until I know the security system at our airports actually work.

From time to time, I read in the Seattle PI and Seattle Times of security breaches that should never happen at some (including our own SEATAC) airports.

The latest was a security guard that knew the X-Ray machine was actually unplugged from the wall, and she passed everyone that came through the gates without inspecting purses and other carry-on luggage.

When a supervisor noted that the X-Ray machine had no power applied, she told that supervisor that "It was not her job to plug it in".

The security guard was fired. Maybe you read about it.



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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-28-2002 03:46 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm driving to Showorst this year. Through the deseret I will go, begginning at the Old Enola Gay hanger still standing in Wendover ( http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=609436&uid=454798 ), south past Area 51 and down the runway past the strange Metal Disk storage facility( http://www.area51researchcenter.com/area51/photos.html ), across the Nevada Test Range and through some craters and over some old derelict test bridges that were sorta left standing( http://www.gla55pak.com/lameduckie/june/grable/img_grable_lo.jpg ), and through all the new tunnels inside of Yucca Flats( http://web.uccs.edu/amilton/student/waste.html ) and out the other end into Vegas!( http://www.vegas.com/ )

Isn't the deseret a fun place???? Atoms are way more interesting than moving picture machinery! Hey Paul, Wanna come along for the ride?
Mark @ NEW GTS


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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 02-28-2002 10:06 AM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jerry, re-read my comments. Nothing they are doing bothers me in the least, so why would I waste my time writing letters or protesting? I have other more important issues to deal with. I respect your position though.

EDITED: Actually, some of what they are doing does bother me because it's either ineffective or inconsistent, but that's all. Certainly not enough to get worked up over. I don't feel my constitutional rights are being infringed because I can't carry scissors or a pistol on the plane.


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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
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 - posted 02-28-2002 10:14 AM      Profile for Greg Mueller   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Mueller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think we should all fly nude, with no carry ons. It would be alot more interesting and no weapons, guaranteed. Heck, they wouldn't even need to put windows in the plane. Maybe cold showers though

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

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From: Forsyth, Montana
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 - posted 02-28-2002 10:40 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the best thing they can do is reinforce the doors on the cockpits. Good locks and solid doors in place (and in use) would have prevented 9/11 from happening.

Comedy fans should check out George Carlin's album "You Are All Diseased," which came out in 2000. He's got a cut on there about airline security. It's strangely prophetic.

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-28-2002 10:58 AM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The "security" charade bothers me because control of travel is often the first sign of major governmental repression. The fascist and communist countries of the last century were famous for requiring travel permits, even for their own citizens. Restricting the travel of Jews was an important step in extermination. A military presence in travel centers is just too dangerous in a free country.

Thinking out of the box, there is another way the problem could be addressed, one that seems more dangerous at the outset but would probably have a much higher success rate at stopping all abberant behavior on airplanes.

At the security checkpoint, every passenger with a U.S. driver's license and age of 30 or greater is handed a taser and given instructions on how and when to use it. Any hijacker who realized that he would be immediately cut down by dozens of high powered electric shots would think twice. Tasers wouldn't have the problem of damaging the plane like pistols would. Hijackers tend to be young, and often extra-national. Older people are less likely to over-react and use a taser when it isn't called for. Drunken Showesters would be given squirt guns instead.



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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 02-28-2002 12:07 PM      Profile for Jim Ziegler   Email Jim Ziegler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jerry,

The changes in airport security have nothing to do with the government trying to control where you travel. Think of it this way, would soldiers have stopped and harrassed a retired general with a Medal of Honor?

A lot of thse problems are that airport security workers, by and large, are bad at their jobs and are on their own little power trips. Frankly, I would prefer the soldiers, as they are much more professional..

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-28-2002 12:56 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark, I am driving, too. Will leave tomorrow morning, and will stop by Robert Goulding in whateverthehellthenameofhiscityis. (Sutter) I'll folllow you back.

You driving your Hog down? If so, I'll pick up the nuts and bolts that fall off and throw them in the trunk for ya.


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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-28-2002 02:04 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Chances are that the hijackers didn't even sneak their weapons on-board themselves. The stories I heard say that the "knives" were planted on the planes before the passengers boarded. These criminals knew where to look for them. (Under seat cushions, I understand.)

So that means that the government is "tightening" security at the "front door" and leaving the "back door" wide open. I have seen the reports on TV where reporters with hidden cameras basically walked through the "crew entrance" and hopped right aboard a plane while it was at the gate.

I think a lot of measures are good... Presenting ID; Matching luggage with each passenger; better carry-on screening, etc.
All this junk about not letting cars stop in front of terminals and having passengers take off their shoes, however, is just rediculous!

So what happens when some idiot hides a 6" ceramic knife blade up his rectum? Are they going to make every passenger bend over and grab their ankles?!

I think the security "professionals", (if that's what you want to call them), should focus more on PROCEDURAL security than physical. Who has access to what areas of the airport and under what circumstances can people get in and out?

I kind of agree with Greg... What's next? Everybody naked with their ID and boarding passes stapled to their foreheads?

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