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Author Topic: Napster Affects CD Sales
Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-22-2001 12:38 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When Napster was flying high, CDs were flying off the shelves. Now, CD sales are in decline, and the drop coincides with the date Napster was curtailed.

Click here for the LA Times Story (Beware of Pop-Ups)

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-22-2001 01:23 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So one moment "they" are saying Napster is going to make them lose money then the next moment they are saying Napster helps them MAKE money and now they are saying that Napster has no effect at all.


I'd say the net effect of the whole thing ended up being that a lot of people spent a lot of money and did a whole lot of hootin' and hollerin' but it was all for nought!

Sounds to me like somebody in the record industry has a severe case of Recto-Cranial Inversion!

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Heyward Garner
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 101
From: Winston-Salem, NC, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 06-22-2001 02:20 AM      Profile for Heyward Garner   Email Heyward Garner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some people... I myself am an aspiring musician, and had I the means, I would have put myself ALL OVER napster just to get my name out. I am well acquainted with several semi-well known bands who absolutely praise napster, and can justify that it did SELL THEIR RECORDS. Society sucks.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-22-2001 02:22 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have not purchased any music CD's since the industry put the screws to Napster and Aimster. Reason? I want to hear a certain song before I buy it. I have purchased CD's because I wanted a clean copy. Several of the MP-3s downloaded had glitches.

I have a ton of hard drive space on these machines, so I record and edit the music CD's as MP3's and WAV files, depending on how I want to use them and what program I want to run them under.

What really irks me is I like some of the older music that is out of print and no longer available. Napster was an excellent source for it.

Unfortunately, much of that stuff is full of pops, scratches, hisses, and hums. I have a program I can use to get rid of scratches and pops, and I can partially EQ out the hisses and hums.

There is no way I would pay anyone to be allowed to download music in such a horrible condition.

If Napster is going to charge for downloads full of glitches and defects obvoius to the listener, then what Randy said about the case of Recto-Cranial Inversion by the Recording Industry applies in the fullest extent.

The Recording Industry can take their music CD's and..(you fill in the blanks)..just because of their greed.


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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-22-2001 02:43 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, then, let's let everyone into the movies for free, and see how many want to pay for them after they've seen them.

The reason CD sales are down is because there are no "blockbusters" yet this year. Last year there were new albums by Britney Spears and NSync, both of which mega-sold in their first week. This year, there is no comparable product bringing the kids into the stores. (That fact is stated in the LA Times article...most of the other stuff in there is speculation by various people.)

I think it's just as hard to quantify the Napster effect as it is to quantify the number of people who see movies for free by "crossing the hallways." Of course Napsterites buy a lot of CDs...they are MUSIC FANS, which is why they're hooked to Napster in the first place.

The whole justification thing for Napster astounds me. The idea that otherwise-honest people now "expect" to get music without paying for it. Why not just read the reviews and listen to the radio (or the sound samples which are so readily available on the Net)?

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-22-2001 03:07 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am sure there are tens of millions of people in this country who never duplicated a cassette tape, a music CD, reel-to-reel tape, VHS Cassette, Beta Cassette, 8-track, or whatever and swapped any of the above with their friends and family. I am equally sure that the same number of people never used the same Windows 98 disk in two computers, either. If anyone would believe that, those people would also believe the moon is full of green cheese.

In my mind, this "pirating" thing is stealing someone elses work and selling it for a profit, whether it be music, video, or computer software.

You can be assured that if anyone was to charge me for a pirated duplicate of any kind, I would not touch it with a 10 foot pole. To me, that's a moral issue that definately rubs me the wrong way.

Mike, with that crap Hollywood has been giving us to run in the theaters, I wouldn't pay to see in the first place. The word of mouth carries the movies to success or to a total flop.

Not so in Music CD's. People buy the CD's because of what they heard on the radio or maybe heard on the Big Screen, or just by the name of the artist. Some people like to hear the song several times before a committment to buy is made. That's how I do it.



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Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 06-22-2001 08:09 AM      Profile for Jesse Skeen   Email Jesse Skeen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I used to buy about 5 CDs a month. Now I don't even buy that many in a year, thanks to the prices having gone up- they were high enough to begin with 10 years ago.

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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 06-22-2001 09:46 AM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've never downloaded anything from Napster, but in the past few months, I began taking all of the hits from my CD collection and making MP3s of them. I'm doing it mainly to have a backup of the songs in case my collection of CDs gets stolen or my house burns, or some other loss. I have spent the past 15 years collecting all of these songs by buying CDs and I feel better having a backup. Approximately 100 CDRs will hold all the hits in my music collection. I will not setup a server where people can get them. I spent the money to buy all of those CDs (well over 2000) and I feel others should do the same.

The only songs I have MP3s of that I don't own CD recordings of are approximately 15 songs that I wanted that have never been put on CD, that I will gladly buy on CD if they ever come out, to get better copies of them. I got the MP3s of those particular songs so I could make a CD that I could conveniently play on my home stereo.

I used to average buying 183 CDs a year for several years but now don't buy nearly as many because there just isn't enough new stuff coming out. I check the box sets section and there has been no change for a while. I have most of the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s stuff that I really like, and there aren't any new oldies being recorded. This means that if I don't like the new stuff (which a lot of I detest), then I won't be buying as many CDs.

I have to hear songs on the radio and songs have to "grow on me" before I'll buy a CD by an artist. I'd say the decline of radio stations playing the "Top 40" new music format is to blame for the lack of CD sales. In Huntsville, we have only one station that plays "new music" (we used to have two) and some of the songs out now are just downright annoying to listen to. At least we have a 50s and 60s oldies station, but I have nearly all of the songs played on that station that I like. The same applies to the 70s and 80s station.

The only way to get me to buy more CDs again is to have some good music come out that I like that gets radio airplay (enough to get me to listen to the new music station more often, since I'm currently only listening to it about once every two weeks), or put out more CDs of older music with tracks that have never been released.

------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site


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Barry Floyd
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1079
From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 06-22-2001 10:42 AM      Profile for Barry Floyd   Author's Homepage   Email Barry Floyd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As someone who makes a decent living playing "other peoples music" as a mobile disc jockey... I can honestly say I've never downloaded anything from Napster. Heck my one of my professional DJ CD player's is intentionally set by the manufacturer NOT to play a recordable CD.
Forced Honesty!!

One thing that I and some of the other local DJ's in the Nashville area noticed last year (during the height of the Napster craze) was the proliferation of the new "Radio Shack Warriors" - the $100.00 a night DJ playing for local private parties and events. It cut us deep. It was hard for us to justify charging $800.00 a night, when the "newbies" came in with their "burned" CD's (most likely from Napster) and undercut us by $700.00. Sure thier level of service to their client most likely sucked, and I could almost bet they never paid a cent to the likes of BMI, SESAC, and ASCAP, but it did hit our pocketbooks pretty hard.

I spend an average of $3,500.00 a year on new music, buying many disc's with only one good song. I have a collection of almost 3,000 CD's, and many I've only played once (i.e. "Debbie Boone's Greatest Hits" - there was ONLY one!!).

Like Paul said, it's really an issue of moral's. I could burn copies of my entire collection and start a 3rd system that goes out on the weekends, but doing so would violate every copyright law ever written.

Since I personally listen to mostly talk radio every day at the office, I sometimes find myself "out-of-touch" with popular music. Subscription services that cater to DJ's like myself are a god-send. All of the "good songs" (singles released for airplay) for the month of July show up on a single disc near the middle of June. I never find myself at Tower Record's with the "staple-faced" clerks at midnight desparately seeking to find that one song I'm missing.

If people want to trade music without paying for it, they'll do it, whether Napster is around or not.

Remember... a lock on a door only keeps an honest person out.

------------------
Barry Floyd
Floyd Entertainment Group
Nashville, Tennessee
(Drive-In Theatre - Start-Up)


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Jason Burroughs
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 654
From: Allen, TX
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-22-2001 12:01 PM      Profile for Jason Burroughs   Email Jason Burroughs   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Personally I followed the same philosophy that Paul does, I would download music, and if I really liked it, I would buy it, if not, their loss but I'm not going to buy anything I don't like weather the recording industry likes it or not.

and 2 yes it was GREAT for getting very rare, hard to find, out of print, etc music, alas the redording industry has squashed that

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-22-2001 02:06 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul...

I guess I didn't make myself clear enough. People who sample music and then buy what they like, that's fine. The ones I get mad at are the ones who now, thanks to Napster, feel like they are "entitled" to music for free because the record companies have been "ripping them off" for years.

There are millions of people around the world who have said "I haven't bought a CD in months, because I download everything." They have no guilt feelings at all about the fact that they have basically stolen the artists' work. Many of these same people would never think of shoplifting a CD from a music store, but the effect is the same.

I also have very little patience for the theory that "music is too high-priced". Back in the early '70s an LP cost about five bucks. Here it is 30 years later and you can buy a CD which is far superior sounding, longer lasting, more compact, more durable, and recorded with far superior technology for 14 bucks or less. (Anyone paying more than that isn't shopping very carefully.) In the '70s we were paying less than 50 cents a gallon for gas which now costs up to $2 a gallon. I bought a new Ford car in '76 for $7200...my latest vehicle, a 2000 Ford, cost $23,500. I went to a Fleetwood Mac concert in '77 for $7.00; in 1997 their tickets were selling for $67.50. EVERYTHING (except computers!) has gone up, so why are people so irritated about music prices?

I'll tell you why. It's because the media has perpetuated a myth that a CD only costs about 50 cents to make. That's true...it costs about that much to PRESS a CD, but what about the costs of recording, shipping, retail expense, advertising and promotion, backing musicians, guitars, drums, booze, etc.

This is just like saying it costs about $1500 to make the film print in a typical theatre auditorium, so we as an industry are TOTALLY ripping people off by selling tickets at $6 or more apiece. (which in the case of some movies, we are, I guess!)

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-22-2001 03:28 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There would be tons of audiophiles who would love to argue with you about how LP's sound better than CD's.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-22-2001 05:23 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Quote from Mike..
.....................................................................
"I guess I didn't make myself clear enough. People who sample music and then buy what they like, that's fine. The ones I get mad at are the ones who now, thanks to Napster, feel like they are "entitled" to music for free because the record companies have been "ripping them off" for years."
......................................................................

Mike, you are absolutely correct. I support your comment in the above quote 100%.

Barry, Those "Radio Shack Warriors" you spoke of are the some of the ones who ruin it for us all. They should be stopped dead in their tracks!




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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-22-2001 06:18 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe,

Absolutely right. (Actually if you look at the Billboard chart, it is surprising just how much of today's music IS actually available on LP.) However, it's hard to imagine those LP-philes wanting to download anything digital!

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-22-2001 06:24 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh I'm sure that just the thought of an MP3 would make a vinyl-phile start twitching and perhaps even shoot someone. I wonder if they wish that all computers were analog?

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