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Author Topic: Curious
Betsie Beadling
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 178
From: Fairfax, Virginia, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 03-01-2001 05:36 AM      Profile for Betsie Beadling   Email Betsie Beadling   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When i go See Movies.
I Sometimes notice a Dot on upper Right
Corner? what is that??

What Month does Shrek come out??
I am Excited about the Shrek Movie

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Frank Rapisardi
Film Handler

Posts: 96
From: Methuen, MA, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 03-01-2001 06:52 AM      Profile for Frank Rapisardi   Email Frank Rapisardi   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Betsie;those marks are cigarette burns.(Que marks) in olden days when we used carbon arch machines;two of the them they signal when it's time to make change overs.(From onemachine to the other) You did this throughout the entire show. Also had to constantly adjust carbon rods.Negative and positive. Then came the day of single projectors and platters. No more change overs.However I still enjoyed these older machines,(You were actually more involved with the show)

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-01-2001 07:50 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Standard SMPTE 301 specifies the position of "Motor Cues" and "Changeover Cues". Each set of cues is four frames of circles in the upper right corner of the frame. The changeover cues are 18 frames before the (hopefully) black runout tail leader. There are 172 frames between the motor cue (when the projectionist starts the second projector motor), and the changeover cue, when the picture and sound are instantly switched to the second projector.

The 172 frames between the motor cue and changeover cue allow the second projector to come up to "sound speed" prior to the changeover. The 18 frames of picture after the changeover cue allow the projectionist time to react to seeing the cue and make the changeover (usual reaction time is 1/3 second = 8 frames).

The cues are usually circles on the film, so a "flat" picture using a spherical lens will have circles on the screen, and an anamorphic "scope" lens will elongate the circles into ovals.

Most theatres today use platters for automation, so changeovers are no longer needed. But some theatres still use two projectors with changeovers, so the cues are still printed on almost all prints. Even with two projectors, theatres often splice several reels together, so only one or two changeovers are needed.

The proper term is "Cue Marks", not "Cigarette Burns". This has been discussed before on Film-Tech, and no one recalls the term "cigarette burns" ever being used by projectionists to describe cue marks prior to the movie "Fight Club".

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-01-2001 10:33 AM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Betsie, don't listen to those know-it-all guys. The industry standard cue mark is a big orange grease pencil X across the entire picture. You'll usually see a number of these.

In old theatres, you could hear the warning for these warnings, usually about two or three minutes before the changeover. There were three basic variations of sound you might hear. Either the projectionist would put coins in the reel of film to drop out and clatter (you could sometimes tell how much the projectionist was paid by the different clunks of the coins), or there would be an arm with an oily and dirty roller on the end of it that rode the center of the film (leaving either a line of oil or a scratch for the entire reel)and dropped against the film case when the diameter of the reel got smaller, or there was a ding ding ding bell that dropped balls against a bicycle bell when the rotation of the reel spindle reached a certain speed. All of the above could be heard in the auditorium, sometimes musically accompanied by the "Oh S**T!" and sudden banging of film cabinets by the projectionist who had fogotten to lace the next projector.

The first (optional) big "X" on the film was to tell the projectionist to put his cigarette down and exhale to clear the air near the port so that he could see, the second one was to tell him to start the motor on the projector and open the manual dowser on the arc light, the third was to tell him to stomp on the changeover foot pedal and break it, (any of you guys _ever_ see a projectionist gently tap these switches instead of killing it?) while simultaniously pushing a button or flipping a lever to change over the sound to the other projector, or record player, or microphone in the booth if he was unlucky. (Hands up, how many remember LPs and record changers on the non-synch?)

Those second and third X's were usually accompanied by dozens of tiny misshappen circles and paper punch holes throughout the picture, along with some baby sized X's in the upper right corner. On rare occassions, you could watch an entire tic-tac-toe game played out as the film neared the changeover point. As an added bonus, the audience often got to see detailed close-ups of clods of dirt, ashes, and nose hair that had been transferred to the film from the projection booth floor and overturned ashtray near the rewind table.

When the film changed to the other projector, the audience would notice the sudden absense of the circles and x's, along with the disconcerting fact that people were suddenly walking on their own heads. Far back in the auditorium, there would be the sounds of a muffled "Damn!" and body parts hitting sheet metal. The people on the screen then would magically rise to the center of the screen, the feet would disappear, and the picture would continue.

Depending on the theatre, sometimes the audience missed the entire changeover show, as the light from the projecter slowly got dimmer and then began turning geeenish, finally going out entirely except for a faint reddish glow. The sound would continue if it was deemed important, or the next reel would go onscreen within a few seconds if it wasn't.

Ah yaas, the good old days.

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-01-2001 10:58 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jerry: Fortunately, none of those procedures were ever submitted to SMPTE for standardization! Not that they didn't happen in some theatres.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Betsie Beadling
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 178
From: Fairfax, Virginia, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 03-01-2001 10:59 AM      Profile for Betsie Beadling   Email Betsie Beadling   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hee hee
I dont Smoke though

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-01-2001 12:15 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The best early warning was a bell mounted on a pendulam arm that would reing when the centrifugal force of the reel spinneng faster as it got close to the end.
They were invented and manufactured in British Columbia and were called the Jackson Reel Alarm

Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-01-2001 12:55 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There was an old carbon arc booth I ran in the '60's, and the porthole viewing porthole was so low you had to sit in a chair to do make the changeovers. I used "clickers" in that booth. They never failed. I could make the changeovers by standing up then, but I would still have to get on at least one knee to check the focus.

Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-01-2001 01:01 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jerry, that happened alot. Been there in my training days... But, usually I would at least clean up the cues as much as possible during film inspection.


Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-01-2001 04:44 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As far as I know, smoking in the booth is a code violation almost everywhere. Presumably, it is a holdover from the nitrate era.

There's also the problem of "second cue appears, picture goes black, sound countinues for a couple of seconds, tail leader appears, screen goes white, someone in the booth yells 'oh, @#%*!' and the movie starts again in another minute." I admit to having been responsible for a couple of these...

I don't think I've ever seen anyone forget to thread up the second machine though. With carbons, my usual method is to make the changeover, then open the lamphouse on the idle projector (so as not to forget to adjust the carbons!), start film rewinding, thread up next reel, and then change or adjust the carbons (which should be cool enough to touch by then); by that time, the reel on the bench should have finished rewinding and was ready to go back into the film cabinet. I would think that forgetting to check the carbons would be a bigger problem than forgetting to thread up the projector.

Does anyone still install the clangy bells? I'm not a big fan of them, since they can almost always be heard in the auditorium. I guess they're helpful with enclosed reel magazines, but I haven't seen either item in any newish installation.

Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 03-01-2001 05:48 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They are only called 'cigarette burns' in "Fight Club".

Cue Marks is the correct term.

-Aaron

Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-01-2001 06:54 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott, I have 3 (the ding ding ding) ones. Want one? Pay the postage and I'll give you one. They are cool. I like them!

CLANG!!! CLANG!!! CLANG!!! The ball is still in it.

Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-01-2001 09:13 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott, the fire department in my area didn't know the difference between a lighted cigarette, a hot case of breaking wind, a blow torch, or a carbon arc plazma ball. Apparently, they thought they were all all the same!

Fire marshall: "What's that smell?"
Projectionist: "The carbon arc hit a gas pocket."
Fire Marshall: "Oh."

(No need to blame it on the dog)


Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-01-2001 11:59 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When I was a teenager, in our town there used to be a drive-in, owned by the parents of a friend of mine. I used to help out in the booth to get free movies. I'd run one machine, and my friend would tend the other.

My friend (name: George) had a bad habit of "getting into" watching the movie and forgetting to thread his projector. One time, I reminded him twice to thread, but all he managed to do was put his reel in the upper magazine...never threaded it. I decided to teach him a lesson. I just sat back and watched the fun.... the "dinger" on my machine went off; George (while still staring at the screen) stepped back and started his lamphouse; when the motor cue went by, he started the projector, and then he made a perfect changeover to...a blank screen, because he still hadn't threaded! I never saw a guy work so fast in my life, and it got even funnier when his dad (who used to be an Airforce Major) came storming into the booth yelling GODAMMIT! IF YOU WERENT SO BUSY WATCHING THE GODDAM MOVIE YOU MIGHT GET SOME WORK DONE AROUND HERE etc etc etc while the car horns were blaring in the background.

Needless to say he never let one "slide" again.

Of course nowadays in my adult-ness, I'd never let such a thing happen in a booth I was working in! :wink:

Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-02-2001 12:04 AM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
SMPTE approved reasons for forgetting to thread up:
1. The film truck driver arrived early and wants to schmooze while you break down the 5000 foot reels. The shaggy dog and the brick are still in the airplane.
2. You are running 2000 foot reels opening night in a twin, and the depot sends short reels of 4 and 8 minutes without heads, just to liven things up.
3. You're nursing a bad lamphouse on one machine, and a sprocketed print on another, and your wife is calling upset because you have to work Christmas.
4. The new film you just got in in the other auditorium has some of the most bodacious looking... Woops, ladies present!
5. You came to work with a 101 degree fever and stuffed head, coughing your lungs out, because the booth is your responsibility.
6. The new candy girl has the most bo... Woops! Projectionists didn't get to be dirty old men without some serious practice.
7. The baseball game on the radio is bases loaded and in overtime.
8. The new cashier has... Down boy!
9. The booth is 110 and the roof hatch door is so inviting.
10. You are called downstairs to "help out" by a manager who understaffed.

None of the above have _ever_ happened.




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