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Author Topic: Copying Hard Drive Contents To Another
Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-08-2001 09:34 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here is the situation:

Drive "D" on a particular machine has bad clusters, and is developing more. This drive is a WD 2.1 Gig chained to a Bus Logic card with 16 megs of RAM. Drive "C" is a 540 meg drive, connected to the same Bus Logic card. Both "C" and "D" drives are on the Primary IDE line of the Bus Logic card. The system Bios reports drive "D" as a 2.1 Gig drive, but Bus Logic (when it loads) changes Heads, Sectors, and cylinders and likewise reports it as a 2.1 Gig drive. I am in the process of building a new machine since the machine I am talking about is a 486DX2-66 with 8 megs of RAM. All out programs are either DOS based, with exception of SAW, which is run under Windows 3.11. I have to copy drive "D" to a new 20 Gig Maxtor drive using the Maxi-Blast software. Am I going to be able to just pull the 2.1 gig drive out of the 486, set it up as the master drive, and use the 20 gig drive as the slave to get the info copied over to it? I would think so, BUT:

The way I see it, I might have to set the drive parameters to what the bus logic reports Drive "D" for this to work. Maybe I can use the orginal parameters that system Bios reports. What are your opinions?

I never was faced with this before, and I need your thoughts.

Thank you.

Paul

Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 6787
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 02-09-2001 01:18 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When I upgraded my hard drive last month, I left the old one in situ, and connected the new one as a secondary slave. I partitioned and formatted the new one using FDISK, then booted Windows.

I then quite simply used Windows Explorer to copy the entire contents of the old disc to the new one. The only thing it won't copy is the swap file, but otherwise everything should go across, preserving long filenames and all (if applicable). This doesn't interfere with the FAT or formatting of either disc at all - it simply copies the files.

When all was done I removed the old disc, moved the new one over to primary master on the IDE bus, then booted from the new one. It worked first time.

It is a good idea to run defrag (or even better, Norton Speed Disc if you have it) afterwards, though, as the copying process won't necessarily place the system files and executables where they are most quickly accessed.

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9426
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-09-2001 05:22 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are several programs that produce cloned drives including the com file to make it bootable.
I have used Linkwiz

Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-09-2001 07:02 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just ran into another snag. The 20 gig hard drives I want to use will not format up to full capacity using FAT 16. But they will using FAT 32. The real snag I am looking at now is whether all the DOS-based programs and Win 3.11 will run correctly on a FAT 32 disk. Trouble is, all these DOS programs are specialized, and will not run under Windows 95 or 98. ARG!!!!! I guess I'll just have to try it and see if the programs will. If not, the maximum size HD will have to be less than 8 gigs. Those are getting hard to find.

I think the computer shop gave me a bum steer. I can always use the drives for something else, but if I partition the 20 gig drives to 2 gig partitions, it'll probably drive the Lantistic (puke) network crazy.


Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 7915
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-09-2001 07:49 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you need FAT, you can just create several different partitions on the 20-gig disk (say, five 4-gig partitions) and format them each as FAT, or, better yet, create a smallish (4-5 gig or so) FAT partition and format the rest as NTFS or (ugh) FAT32, both of which are far more efficient filesystems with large disks.

I can't really recommend FAT32, since it's totally incompatable with everything that isn't Win98 or Win2k, and it isn't as efficient as NTFS (which still isn't so great, but is better than FAT32).

Apparently, Veritas now offers some version of the vxfs filesystem that runs under WinNT. I'm sure it costs a small fortune, but I'd like to see it. It works great on big Sun machines, and I'm curious to see if it's any good under NT.

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9426
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-09-2001 07:54 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I use partition magic and bootmagic
partition the drive and install fat32 and win98 on it. Install partition magic and bootmagic and create a small fat16 partition and use the bootmagic menu to install Dos on it. When the computor starts Dos will only see the fat16 or windows will only see the fat 32 depending which os is selected.
I like the OS2 file system HPFS

Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-09-2001 09:54 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, I was hoping you were just copying onto an entirely new system. You've learned about the 8.4 hard line for DOS (total drive space).

You can do a partition magic routine, but you might be better off installing win 98SE and getting the 32 fat. 99 percent of DOS programs will run on it, and even run under Windows DOS windows if you tweak the properties. I've even run 16 bit hex editors on 32 bit systems and they just saw the 16 bits they were used to.

The computer store droid didn't know what he was talking about, which is common.

Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-09-2001 11:46 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just discovered a FAT 32 drive won't even Xcopy with a FAT 16, either through DOS or hard drive software, such as Maxi-blast. I think the easiest way out is to find about 4 each 2 gig drives. Because of Lantastic running in DOS, I am limited as to how many drives and/or partitions I can have.

The programs we are running are not compatible to anything else but DOS. It will not run under NT, Win 95, 98, ME, or 2000. It is in a department all by itself. There is nothing like it. It requires an Intel processor, and top-end ANTEX sound cards. The program developer could not make it run under anything but DOS. He battled with it for years to make it compatible with something other than DOS. The program is written in COBAL. Maybe that's why, I don't know.

It is a very expensive specialized program that makes and plays Audio MPEG's, at some goofy compression scheme that nothing else can touch. That's the Broadcasting Industry for you.

Some of the files were written so the duplicate file would self distruct in the process of copying through DOS.

I can say this specialized program is rock solid under the DOS enviroment, and for all practical puproses, 100% glitch free until a drive or other hardware goes "H" as in "Horse", and "S" as in "Shucks".


Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1556
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 02-10-2001 02:36 AM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, buy a mac, Throw out the pc. and if you need to copy one hard drive to another drag the one with the data you want copied on top of the one you want to copy to. sorry, I couldnt resist.

------------------
I love to smoke I smoke seventhousand packs a day and I'm never F*&ing quittin!-- Denis Leary

Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-10-2001 10:10 AM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, something is puzzling about this. For all intents, 95A runs in 16 bit DOS, and 95B and 98 run in 32 bit DOS. You don't have to load the windows GUI or drivers, and if you stick with just the command line at startup, you have what is sometimes called DOS 7 (Not to be confused with IBM DOS), and all DOS based programs that aren't tied to a particular DOS version should run fine.

When programmers say their program won't run in Windows DOS virtual machines, they mean just that, and usually don't mean that the program can't run from a straight command prompt.

Since this is an expensive program, my bet is that the programmer included some copy protection schemes that are causing the trouble, and that the code would be more compatible without these. However, if the programmer says no, that is usually the end of story.

Four drives will tax the power supply of most computers. You'll need a quality one if you go that route.

A lot of folks used Lantastic, but I found it crashed and burned whenever it had to work with a directory that was loaded with files. Windows for Workgroups actually has a DOS client, which would allow you to access across the net to some 32 bit drives. I haven't set it up myself, and there are limitations to it, but it could be an improvement over Lantastic.

Good luck.

Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-10-2001 12:47 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jerry, like a motor vehicle, that program is an operating system all in itself, and DOS is the wheels, so to speak. It is a weird program. I hate it.

Actually, I have to do this to two machines, so I need two hard drives each. The machines we are running these programs on are 486's with 8 megs of RAM. But the 486's and the drives themselves are getting a little flakey because of their ages.

Thanks for all the input, guys. Very much appreciated.


Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-10-2001 06:28 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I finally got two each 3.8 GIG drives to format to 2.1 Gigs under DOS without a partition. Now, I wonder if it will still work. I guess I'll find out when I try to copy one drive to another...

I told the Driod in the computer shop that he was in error,and now he admits that. I guess he did not do too much DOS work, he is kinda young that works mostly on Windows 95 and 98. He apologized, and when I told him that I thought I made it clear that this is for DOS 6.22, but apparently he mis-understood me. I think that was a crop of crap. He knew, and gracefully took the drives back. I told him I was not going to waste a 20 gig drive for only 2.1 gigs.


Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-11-2001 08:43 AM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You'll find that getting computer advice or info from most computer stores is pot-luck at best. The usenet archives of www.deja.com, search engines, and the MS database are much more reliable. Give 'em their due though, the Droids do seem to be good at telling what color iMacs are available.

Even major suppliers don't know all the ins and outs. I have one supplier I deal with regularly, who is a great guy and very knowledgable about certain things, but there are huge holes in his knowledge of other things. There is simply too much complexity to computers and operating systems for any one person to have a complete grasp of everything. The windows API alone is more than any single person can keep up with. If the fellow you were dealing with was gracious and admitted his mistake, you got one of the good ones. My guess is the next time you deal with him, he'll be on his toes and ready to admit his limitations.

Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-11-2001 08:34 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jerry, I got the stuff copied over on some small drives I had in my computer network at home that I can easily part with at the right price. And, the radio station is going to buy them, too! I'm the Engineer, and the boss does what I say!

With reference to Drive "C", I was able to Maxi-Blast it over, but drive "D" I couldn't. I suspected that anyway. Before I yanked Drive D, I ran a scan disk on it, it found some more bad clusters, but no lunched files. To add insult to injury, I could not even defrag it.

When it came to copy time, I could not do an Xcopy, as when it ran into the splattered files, it could not read them, then just dumped me. So, I re-constructed the directories and sub-directories, and copied them over. When it ran into the bad files, I just chose "ignore", and continued on its merry way. There were 12 files that were screwed up and could not read. Luck had it in my favor - they were locally made sound files in the SPC format, so no big loss anyway.

I checked for hidden files and shared files just to make sure everything was there.

Rebooted the new computer, and everything seems to be hunky-dory! I suspect that when I install the two Antex sound cards and the lan card, it'll run.

Again, I would like to thank all you people for the valuable input. I hope I have the chance to help you when your butt is in a bind.

Paul


Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-11-2001 08:51 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sean, I thought of a MAC several times. Bill Gates lives about 70 miles from me, and maybe I'll buy his son or daughter a MAC!, just for the heck of it.




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