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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
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Author
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Topic: Datasat and Qube abandon their customers.
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Juan Jose Garcia Calvo
Film Handler
Posts: 64
From: Pedrajas de San Esteban, Spain
Registered: May 2003
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posted 03-12-2017 06:25 AM
As I have written before in the technical forum, problems with our datasat dc20 continues, and finally Datasat and Qube don't care and don't offer a solution to their customers.
Around the year 2009-2010, datasat was selling their DC20 server, actually made by QUBE as a variant of its QXPD model. We paid 13.000€ for our DC20 server here in Spain in 2010.
Now it seems that these models did not really comply with the DCI regulations and now distributors, aware of this, are beginning to refuse to send films to these servers.
As our server is a Datasat DC20, we have asked Datasat for a solution and they only tell us that we must replace this equipment with another one, since they considered something "normal" that in the future these equipments would need some updating.
We consider that throwing away the current server and buying another new one is NOT an update: it is a complete replacement.
We feel we've been cheated by Datasat: the specs of the DC20 said that it was DCI compliant and now we discover that this is not true, and the big problem is that now, nor Datasat and nor Qube want to take their responsability.
But there is an added problem: these servers had in their DNA a death date engraved, due to a certificates problem. Qube used a windows xp embeeded plattform for these servers that don't let accepts more certificates renewal beyond JUNE 2017 because their certificates trees don't accepts more renewals.
I think everybody need to know how these two brands take care of their clients whe we discover such wrong designs.
I want to contact other users/owners of the Datasat DC20 servers (and Qube XPD) to know how Datasat and Qube are dealing this problem in other areas, and in case, coordinate actions to claim solutions to this problem, and I invite to any Datasat or Qube people to give here their explanations.
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Scott Norwood
Film God
Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 03-13-2017 11:55 AM
I don't know how things work in Spain.
In the US, if they sold you a product as "DCI-compliant" and it wasn't, then they need to either make it DCI compliant, replace it with something that is, or refund your money. Where this could get sticky is if it met DCI specifications at the time of manufacture and then those specifications changed. Is this the case?
The time-bomb issue certainly seems to be customer-hostile, but one could probably make the argument that these things have an expected lifespan of five years, so a seven-year certificate expiration date is not unreasonable. This is a pretty lousy way to treat one's customers, but, unfortunately, the 2009-2010 era was a bit early in the development of D-cinema equipment and standards, and some equipment from that era may not be up to 2017 standards.
quote: Steve Kraus
Micro$oft is maintaining XP for various government agencies for big money. It would be nice if they offered updates to everyone else, even if they charged for it.
I believe that they do, if you pay them enough.
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Juan Jose Garcia Calvo
Film Handler
Posts: 64
From: Pedrajas de San Esteban, Spain
Registered: May 2003
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posted 03-13-2017 12:13 PM
quote: Scott Norwood
Where this could get sticky is if it met DCI specifications at the time of manufacture and then those specifications changed. Is this the case?
I think there has not been changes in the DCI specs... but maybe there are here in the forum people that could know these DCI specs and maybe can give us their opinions.
Here in Spain is similar, but the problem is that the Spanish dealer that sold us this datasat server now is closed and is missing, but I think that Datasat (as an international brand) must take his responsability even if they are in the US or UK and we are in Spain.
quote: Scott Norwood
The time-bomb issue certainly seems to be customer-hostile, but one could probably make the argument that these things have an expected lifespan of five years, so a seven-year certificate expiration date is not unreasonable. This is a pretty lousy way to treat one's customers, but, unfortunately, the 2009-2010 era was a bit early in the development of D-cinema equipment and standards, and some equipment from that era may not be up to 2017 standards.
Do you really think that is reasonable only 5 or 7 years for a 13.000€ server?
As I said, our server is not obsolote: It plays with no problems Interop and SMPTE DCPs, plays all subtitles, recognize all tipe of DCPs, ingest films in the half time of an Doremi IMS1000, is stable... but... next June it will die.
That proof that the industry didn't change, the specs didn't changed, this is only a bad design and two companies that don't want get their responsability.
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 03-15-2017 01:59 AM
I have to say that I have had a far better experience with Datasat when it comes to legacy products and formats: they were always really helpful in providing backup for our XD-10s and XD-20s, and providing audio content on one or two occasions for prints that came without it. Now that they've sold off the DTS film audio operation to another company (can't remember the name), it's up to them now, but while Datasat were the custodians of it, they did a good job, IMHO.
As for this server, it raises the broader point of people's expectations for the longevity of digital cinema equipment. 35mm projection systems were expected to last half a century with appropriate maintenance and minor upgrades (e.g. sticking a penthouse reader on top of a projector), and theaters budgeted accordingly. Now, even a series 1 projector made in 2007 is no longer officially supported by the manufacturer: I had to put a want post in this forum for a couple of parts I'm looking for to keep ours alive. And I gather that support for the Dolby DSS200, of which we have two in revenue-earning use and one backup unit, is due to end next year.
The impression I get is that theaters simply aren't planning and budgeting for the replacement of projectors and servers on a one decade cycle: many series 1 projectors and earlier generation servers and media blocks won't be replaced until they die and cannot be fixed economically, and/or with the parts and expertise available to their owners when that happens. I'd further speculate that we're on the verge of getting to the point at which this hardware is going to die in significant quantities, and we're going to see some venues have serious problems dealing with that when it happens.
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