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Topic: Gun Fires In Movie Theatre

Mitchell Dvoskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1869
From: West Milford, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 05-22-2014 11:22 AM

Fox News

quote: Fox News

MEMPHIS, Tenn. – Police say no one was hurt when a loaded gun fell out of a man's pants pocket in a movie theater and fired.

Memphis police said 63-year-old George Gholson was arrested and charged Tuesday with reckless endangerment and failing to follow a posted "no-weapons" notice.

Police said Gholson took a .38-caliber, two-shot Derringer into a movie theater in east Memphis. The gun, which was loaded with one bullet, fell out of his pants pocket and fired the round.

Police said none of the 18 people in the theater were hit. An off-duty police officer who was in the theater at the time took Gholson into custody.

The theater had posted a notice prohibiting weapons inside the building. Online court records do not show if Gholson has a lawyer.

Proves that you are never to old to win the Darwin Stupidity Award...

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Dennis Benjamin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1445
From: Denton, MD
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 05-22-2014 11:33 AM

This reminds of a story I heard before:

A while back in Nashville, Tennessee - a similar thing happened. At the Regal Hollywood 27. A man had a gun in plain sight and was planning on walking into the theatre with the gun on his hip. A manager told him he wasn't allowed to bring it in. They asked him to put it in his car. The man explained that he didn't want the gun in his car, as he felt someone would steal it. He then asked if they would hold onto in the manager's office (BIG MISTAKE). The manager's office is located directly behind the box office. At some point during the two hour film the man was watching - a manager decided they wanted to 'check out' the gun. Needless to say - I was told that the box cashier who was shot in the back of the leg when the gun went off - would be o.k.

This story may not be entirely accurate - but it is true. I don't know if the manager dropped the gun and it fired - or whether they actually pulled the trigger - but luckily the cashier was only shot it the leg.

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Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-22-2014 11:59 AM

Thus we have No Guns Allowed signs on our doors. Our lege passed a law that says you can take a gun anywhere unless there is a sign saying otherwise. Brisk market in signs when that one passed.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-22-2014 12:08 PM

One thing I can say for either one of those stories: if someone drops a gun and it fires when hitting the ground then that is one piece of shit gun.

Just about any halfway decent handgun made these days has internal safety mechanisms in place to prevent such things from happening. You could load a SigSauer P226 and throw it against a cinder block wall as hard as you can and it would never fire. The firing pin is only engaged when the trigger is pulled back a certain distance. That particular handgun has no external safety levers. They're unnecessary. Your index finger is your real safety.

And that gets to another issue: people handling guns with apparently no clue regarding the four cardinal rules of gun safety.
1. Consider any gun to be loaded.
2. Point the gun only at something you want to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire.
4. Identify your target & what is behind your target.

It's impossible for anyone to have an "accident" with a gun if they follow those four rules. The incidents described above involve breaking at least 2 or more of those rules. I don't consider them accidents either. They're acts of negligence. If someone can't handle the concepts of gun safety he probably shouldn't be screwing around with guns in the first place. It would work out much better for other gun owners.

quote: Martin McCaffery
Brisk market in signs when that one passed.

In my experience only a few types of businesses get interested in posting such signs. We get the most call for those kinds of graphics from hospitals. In Oklahoma it's illegal for someone with a concealed carry permit to carry into government buildings, bars/nightclubs and a few other places.

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Jarod Reddig
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 513
From: Hays, Ks
Registered: Jun 2011

posted 05-22-2014 02:08 PM

The only other way I can see a gun going off when adhereing to the above rules is if the person holding the gun trips and a something like a twig or branch engages the trigger. This exact scenario happend to my brother-in-law while pheasant hunting. When the hunting dogs made a point at a brush full of birds the hunter next to him walked up to the area and just as he raised his gun to shoot at the flushing birds he tripped and the gun fell just right to have a twig engage the trigger and shot my brother-in-law in the face and lost an eye.

But I agree the above rules are exactly what one should adhere to for gun safety.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-22-2014 04:10 PM

But your typical home-defending gun nut would never want to adhere to those rules, especially the last three. For example I can just hear it now: "But I gotta have my finger on the trigger, otherwise how can I blast the bad guy before he blasts me?"

I have a feeling about 75% of gun owners probably shouldn't own guns, because they're probably too dangerous in the hands of those kind of people, trained or not. A lot of training lessons get forgotten when a person is in (what he thinks is) a desperate situation.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 05-22-2014 05:39 PM

Without sounding too preachy and since I don't live in the U.S., it's rather not my business... but here are my 2ct for what it's worth...

You generally don't require a license to own a vehicle, but since a car can be a dangerous tool when operated without proper training, you need a license to use one in public, at least in the overwhelming majority of countries on this planet. The quality of those licenses can probably be debated, but there seems to be an universal opinion that a car is something that comes with inherent danger and responsibility.

Consider guns: Many countries/states/provinces/whatever around the planet allow you to own them (at least certain models), often without any kind of license. Interestingly though, some even allow you to carry and potentially use them in public, without any proper training or license.

So, I'm wondering, shouldn't guns be considered potentially dangerous "tools", just like cars?

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Steve Matz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 672
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 05-22-2014 09:29 PM

Almost every Handgun except those pieces of Crap Jennings, Ravens,junk guns etc., after 1972 added a transfer bar between the hammer/firing pin so things like falling out of your pocket on the floor wouldn't let the gun go off. Prior to that it wasn't uncommon especially with pre 72 Ruger Blackhawk and Super blackhawks to have something like this happen. First of all you were told in your manual not to put more than 5 rounds in a six shot revolver and leave the hammer on the open chamber. Those Guns also had a 1/4 cock feature that if you had it in that position even with a live round it shouldn't have gone off hitting the ground.

All major Firearms Mfger like Ruger wanted you to send your old model BH & SBHs back to them in a prepaid mailer so they could modify it with the safer Transfer Bar. Trouble was it made the firearm safer but took away valve from the original 3 screw model which now days fetch a pretty good price. Consequently there are a ton of pre 72 Rugers out there that the owners never sent in to be modified because of this reason.

Like everything most of these Firearm accidents even with the older Models are caused by incompetence and not following directions from the manual your firearm came with...

BTW: I would bet you that off duty cop was carrying a firearm in that theater. Many Cops not only carry their service weapon which in most cases now days is 40 S&W or 9MM x 19 but they like to carry usually a compact .380 in a ankle holster. Usually a theater owner probably wouldn't have objected because he was still a Cop but off Duty. But remember not long ago a retired decorated Cop shot and killed a another man in a theater for Texting. The Deadly weapon on the Victims part was his Box of Popcorn.I'm a Class 2 Firearms Dealer since 1983 along with Explosives but Firearms don't belong in Movie Theaters...

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-22-2014 11:53 PM

quote: Mike Blakesley
But your typical home-defending gun nut would never want to adhere to those rules, especially the last three. For example I can just hear it now: "But I gotta have my finger on the trigger, otherwise how can I blast the bad guy before he blasts me?"

I laugh at a lot of movies and TV shows when they frequently show improper gun handling. Actors frequently hold the gun wrong, doing things like palming the magazine (it's a good way to cause a jam or failure to feed issue). They'll often have their trigger finger wrapped around the trigger past the 2nd knuckle, ignoring rule #3. On top of that, if they have to fire they'll pull their shots to the left.

Most of us saw the funny video of the cop shooting himself in the foot as he talked to a bunch of elementary school kids about guns -rules #2 & #3 ignored for our laughter.

A home owner choosing to ignore rule #3 might get up in the middle of the night to check on some noises he heard. He gets startled by someone in the hallway and fires because his finger is on the trigger. He hasn't even had time to figure out if the person in the hallway was an intruder. And then he finds out he shot one of his family members.

A lot of hunting accidents occur due to some dumbass shooting at movement in brush. He thinks he might be shooting at a deer, but sometimes ends up shooting a fellow hunter, hiker or some other person instead. Several years ago a couple cops outside Oklahoma City answered a call about a rat snake that climbed a pole up to a bird house. They decided to shoot at the snake. Their stray shots landed nearby at a creek where an elderly man and his grandson were fishing. The grandson caught one of those stray rounds in the head, killing him.

quote: Mike Blakesley
I have a feeling about 75% of gun owners probably shouldn't own guns, because they're probably too dangerous in the hands of those kind of people, trained or not. A lot of training lessons get forgotten when a person is in (what he thinks is) a desperate situation.

No one is going to know for certain how they'll react when put into a life threatening situation until it happens. Gun owners who practice at the range enough to be proficient at shooting and take classes in gun tactics will have much better odds than someone who just buys a gun, loads it, puts it away in the night stand and does nothing else. If someone has serious doubts if they could act quickly and use deadly force against a home invader, car jacker, etc. they probably shouldn't have a gun for personal defense. Hesitation and doubt can lead to a person's gun getting turned against him by the criminal.

Another tough thing about using guns in life threatening situations: doing it legally. The "make my day" and "stand your ground" laws help in some areas, but a lot of people have very serious misconceptions about what they can do to a bad guy. They can use deadly force to stop a threat, but they don't have the explicit right to kill anyone. If you shoot an intruder and incapacitate him yet he is still alive and you reload and finish him off then you will have committed first degree murder.

quote: Marcel Birgelen
You generally don't require a license to own a vehicle, but since a car can be a dangerous tool when operated without proper training, you need a license to use one in public, at least in the overwhelming majority of countries on this planet.

It's kind of an apples to oranges comparison. Here in the United States cars kill and injure a hell of a lot more people every year than guns. People use cars very frequently in their daily lives. An American's odds of getting hurt or killed in some kind of car accident are quite a lot higher than getting hurt or killed by a handgun. And that's even with most people having a license and insurance.

There's lots of other tools, dangerous ones even, that don't require a license. You don't need a license to own and use a chainsaw. I get more nervous using one of those things than shooting a gun. A chainsaw blade can kick back out of a tree branch and cut deep into your neck and torso without any warning.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 05-23-2014 01:49 AM

quote: Bobby Henderson
It's kind of an apples to oranges comparison. Here in the United States cars kill and injure a hell of a lot more people every year than guns. People use cars very frequently in their daily lives. An American's odds of getting hurt or killed in some kind of car accident are quite a lot higher than getting hurt or killed by a handgun. And that's even with most people having a license and insurance.

Regarding apples and oranges: I'm pretty sure that in the United States, the car is a "tool" much more commonly used by a much wider range of people than a gun. A driving license doesn't eliminate all accidents, but I'm also pretty sure it helps to reduce the frequency.

quote: Bobby Henderson
There's lots of other tools, dangerous ones even, that don't require a license. You don't need a license to own and use a chainsaw. I get more nervous using one of those things than shooting a gun. A chainsaw blade can kick back out of a tree branch and cut deep into your neck and torso without any warning.

Yeah, but unless some kind of zombie movie-esque cataclysmic event precedes the situation, a chainsaw is something very few people will carry in public to defend themselves let alone, bring it to a movie theater.

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Frank Cox
Film God

Posts: 2234
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011

posted 05-23-2014 02:46 AM

I remember reading about someone who held up a convenience store using a chainsaw a few years ago.

The intimidation factor would definitely be there in that situation.

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Steve Matz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 672
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 05-23-2014 03:41 AM

Politicians have always felt that more paper work deters Criminals buying Firearms.Criminals don't fill out paper work;they Steal other people's guns through Home Burgularies,Robbing Gun Sale related Businesses or they find unscrupulous Kitchen table FFL Holders that will sell them a Firearm for Cash, No 4473 Form,No Nothing. They will also scour
Gunshows looking for a Privateer Table that won't even ask for an ID as long as your Flashing Cash in front of their Face.

Handgun Control has never worked, will never work,so why the anti-gun Politicians keep trying to ban certain firearms, Hi-capacity Magazines, etc. is Fruitless.If every Firearms Mfger
in the US stopped Production Today; their would still be so many millions of Firearms out there it wouldn't matter. The Major Cities that had the Strictist handgun control like Chicago, District of Columbia,New Orleans,etc. have the highest Murder Rates involving Handguns in the Nation.

Back before the 93 Ban on Certain style Assault weapons 2 Major Distributing companies "Southern Ohio Gun" SOG and KY IMPORTS merged temporarily and imported over 6 million Norinco SKS's and close to the same number of MAK 90s & BK92s.to the US. The ATF in their lame thinking thought that Banning Norinco Imports would cure this happening again. All it did was bring more imported assault style weapons from former Communist Block Countries like Romania,Hungary,Bulgaria,along with countries like Egypt(Maadi)South Korea(Daewoo)and Israel...Also when the Soviet Union's economy Collapsed in 93 the Russians went down in their 6 story underground vaults and brought up untold numbers of Russian made SKSs that had been stored since the early 50's. Most of those Guns ended up over here also. So there are millions of variants of AK47s,SKSs,along with all the different companies that make copies of the Original Colt AR-15...all over this Country and all the anti-gun people like Diane Feinstein, Schumer,OBAMA,etc. will always be fighting a non-win situation.

Most of your Dealers were selling SKS's anywhere from 79 to 99 dollars per gun and 7.62x39 ammo back then was under a 100 dollars a Case(1000 to 1200 Rds) There are probably more SKS Rifles(mostly Norinco)in this Country than the old Popular 94 Winchester 30-30. Same with the Maks; they sold as cheap as 179 dollars in the early 90's. There is no Shortage of Firearms or Ammunition in many parts of this Nation and disarming a Nation that loves it Guns as much as this Country would be The Last Job you would ever want in the World...

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-23-2014 09:32 AM

I think if the US government really wanted a gun ban to affect street crime they might try targeting the kinds of guns street criminals really use instead of the guns they see used in movies. Lots of gang members and other kinds of street criminals like cheap, sub-compact small caliber handguns. They don't look glamorous, but they're easy to obtain, hide, sell/trade and then throw away after a crime is committed.

Very few of the murders committed in the United States are perpetrated with assault rifles. You can't conceal an assault rifle. A good one tends to be pretty expensive. I saw some interesting statistics from the FBI showing consistently more people were killed with blunt weapons like hammers & clubs than rifles (assault & single shot bolt action rifles combined). In 2005, 445 people in the US were killed with rifles while 605 were killed with blunt objects. In 2011, 323 were killed with rifles and 496 murders were committed with blunt objects.

By the way, the homicide rate in the US isn't what it used to be. Last year there were 14,827 murders in the United States, and that's actually an increase over the previous few years. The rise in violent crime in recent years may have something to do with the economic downturn that started in 2006. Back in 1980 this country had over 30,000 murders -and that's with a population of 226 million back then versus 317 million now. Back in 1990 New York City had over 2000 murders in the 5 boroughs; last year the city had under 500 murders. Politicians pushing for tighter gun control laws usually don't bring up those statistics.

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Yeah, but unless some kind of zombie movie-esque cataclysmic event precedes the situation, a chainsaw is something very few people will carry in public to defend themselves let alone, bring it to a movie theater.

Who said anything about using a chainsaw as a personal defense weapon? I'm talking about dangerous tools people just use in everyday life.

People have to use chainsaws to cut big tree branches in their yards, particularly after a severe storm has made a mess of things. Around 30,000 people in the United States are injured every year in chainsaw accidents; a good number of those accidents come from the logging industry with workers who have a lot of practice using chainsaws. Nail guns, circular saws, table saws and even ladders are dangerous, yet widely available and require no licensing or training of any kind to purchase. I don't have to worry about my handgun flipping back 180° to shoot me in the face when I fire it. Anyone using a chainsaw has to watch out of all kinds of unpredictable shit, particularly kick back.

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006

posted 05-23-2014 01:57 PM

I remember about 10 years or so ago a similar incident happened at a picnic ground
at one of the wineries here in Northern California- - a gun fell out some guys
pants, went off, and seriouly injured some other guy having lunch with his family.

The injured man succesfully sued the winery for a sh_tload of money for not
having a "no guns allowed" sign posted. (Lawyers!)

Not sure what happened to the guy who couldn't keep his gun in his pants.

Statistically speaking, your chances of not getting shot are still much better
in a movie theater than at a high school, as recent news events can confirm.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 05-23-2014 02:21 PM

quote: Bobby Henderson
Who said anything about using a chainsaw as a personal defense weapon? I'm talking about dangerous tools people just use in everyday life.

The difference is, people use those tools themselves and they primarily risk themselves. Nothing is going to hold you back stabbing yourself with a knife or burning yourself with a blowtorch.

Before you bring your firearm into a public space, you'd better know how to use the thing, or else you're not just a danger to yourself, but also many people around you.

quote: Bobby Henderson
I don't have to worry about my handgun flipping back 180° to shoot me in the face when I fire it.

But apparently there is crap out there that fires just when being dropped. That supposedly only happens in movies...

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