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Author Topic: Deaf Moviegoes Sue Cinemark
Robert Crabtree
Film Handler

Posts: 91
From: Largo, FL
Registered: May 2008


 - posted 12-04-2010 03:34 PM      Profile for Robert Crabtree   Email Robert Crabtree   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
According to this article , Cinemark is the defendant in a lawsuit over lack of captioning in its theaters.

If the article is correct that at the time of the suit, there were no captioned shows offered at a single location, then it would appear Cinemark has slapped together a "pilot program of appeasement". They now boast offering Devil and My Soul to Take with captions in a few locations.

On the one hand, I'm definitely appalled at such limited offerings for deaf patrons (2 out of date crappy horror flicks? SERIOUSLY?), and would think it simple good business sense to put such equipment in large/busy locations.

On the other...I don't believe ADA makes any stipulations about captioning. Lack of captioning doesn't constitute the same burden/safety hazard that early stadium builds posed for folks in wheelchairs, for instance. The suit originates from a heavily populated area in California, where there exist options for captioned shows.

Also, Cinemark is not alone in not providing captioning. A casual search of Carmike and Dickinson locations on their websites turned up no locations with captioned offerings. While RAVE lists that some locations have both "Hearing Impaired Technology" and assisted listening devices, I couldn't find evidence suggesting that these two amenities aren't one and the same, so I'd add them to that list as well.

My own position is that Cinemark is perfectly within its rights to drive deaf/HOH customers to other chains or Blockbuster, and I'm a bit uncomfortable with the prospects of a ruling to require it (depending on how such a ruling is derived and articulated). But as deaf folk, and disabled folk in general, tend to be at the receiving end of policies of what I call "benign negligence", I can't say I'm not slightly pleased at a public airing of non-accommodation.

Anyone know anything differently, or have their own two cents to throw in?

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 12-04-2010 04:43 PM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A company advertising that it has devices for the hearing impaired is definitely not meaning that they are helping the deaf with captioning and such.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 12-04-2010 10:42 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Deaf" and "hearing impaired" are NOT the same thing, either legally or actually. Louis

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-05-2010 12:23 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is political correctness gone way too far. Everyone needs to be taken care of and provided for. How much money would you make by dedicating an auditorium to an open caption movie? Not as much as you would giving it to another, regular movie. And how about the DTS thingy which superimposes captions on regular movies? Do you think you'll ever make your money back that you spent on the thing in the first place? Probably not.

Deaf people need to realize that they need to wait until the DVD comes out and turn on the subtitles. They have no right that guarantees them the chance to see a first run movie. Deaf people do not generate revenue. If they want to enjoy a night out at the movies, maybe they should try not being deaf.

What's next, blind people complaining that there isn't descriptive audio at a theater near them?

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Jake Spell
Master Film Handler

Posts: 294
From: Johns Island SC
Registered: May 2009


 - posted 12-05-2010 12:53 AM      Profile for Jake Spell   Email Jake Spell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My personal 2 cents on the whole ADA is that its way out of proportion. These are privately owned buildings therefore the services offered (hearing impaired, handicapped parking, wheelchair accessibility, stadium seating) should be solely at the discretion of the owner. If someone doesn't like not having hearing impaired, then go somewhere that offers it. If you dont like stadium seating dont go to a theater that has it. There is not possible way to make everyone happy or a building that is accessible to everyone.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 12-05-2010 11:33 AM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We've alre4ady INVENTED theatre for blind people; we call it RADIO! ("and then John Wayne just rode away. . . . ." Louis

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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 12-05-2010 05:56 PM      Profile for Jim Ziegler   Email Jim Ziegler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The plaintiffs will likely find a sympathetic jury in Alameda County... On appeal, however, they will probably lose. This is most likely a ploy to force Cinemark to comply, which is probably why Cinemark is captioning the crap films.

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Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-05-2010 07:19 PM      Profile for Martin McCaffery   Author's Homepage   Email Martin McCaffery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here's a history of sorts of the legal path in the last decade.
Open Caption Info

I think Tripod has changed their names, but they've ben doing the open-captioned films for most of this time. They work with the studios, but do not caption all of the films, just the ones the studios want. We used to show one a month, but then Tripod changed their business plan to concentrate on the major chains and so we were cut out. So no open-captioned films in town for about 10 years.

Then Carmike started showing them here once a month. I've gotten lots of complaints about the presentation from one very vocal member of the deaf community. Apparantly this is what Carmike still uses its 35mm for and no one remembers how to work it.

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Jeremy Weigel
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1062
From: Edmond, OK, USA
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 12-05-2010 08:10 PM      Profile for Jeremy Weigel   Email Jeremy Weigel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Movie Captioning App for iPhone and Droid in the Works

October 2010

I'm all for anything that makes it easier for people with hearing loss to understand movies, and captioning has made that possible. I support both open captioned movies (captions are part of the film and typically display at the bottom of the screen) and movies using the Rear Window system (captions appear on a plexiglass device that the viewer can position under the screen). I've never tried a handheld device, but I've heard from people who have that constantly having to refocus from the distant movie to the close device quickly causes eyestrain. I imagine it may be more of an issue for us older folks than for those who are younger. Be that as it may, a company is developing a captioning application for the iPhone and Droid that has the potential to make captioning available at a greater number of movies.

Oh great. I can't wait to see every teenager download the app and have the auditorium lit up even more than text messaging. [Roll Eyes]

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-05-2010 08:32 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Can the iPhone even last 2 hours all powered up and turned on?

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 12-05-2010 09:42 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
An additional lawsuit will be filed to force movie theater operators to install AC plugs in every seat.
[Razz]

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-05-2010 09:58 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
San Francisco Chronicle
Theater chain sued over lack of captioning
Wednesday, December 1, 2010

Deaf and hard-of-hearing moviegoers filed suit in Alameda County Tuesday against Cinemark, the nation's third-largest theater chain, for refusing to install closed-captioning equipment that would let them read the dialogue in films they can't hear.

"We just want the opportunity to go to the movies with our friends and family like everybody else," Rick Rutherford of El Cerrito, a plaintiff in the proposed class-action suit, said in a statement released by his lawyers.

About 36 million Americans suffer some hearing loss, which increases with age, said lawyers from Disability Rights Advocates in Berkeley, citing a national study. They said captioning is essential for those who can't use hearing aids.

Installing devices that would allow patrons to read captions at any seat, without affecting other customers, would cost $10,000 per theater, the lawyers said.

Of the three largest theater chains, only Cinemark has refused to use closed-captioning equipment, said attorney Kevin Knestrick. He said the other two leading chains, Regal and AMC, provide limited captioning - often at off-peak hours and in only one theater per multiplex - and have been sued in other states, as has Cinemark.

Cinemark has nearly 300 theaters nationwide, including four in Alameda County - in San Leandro, Hayward, Newark and Union City.


Bullshit statistics -- Yes, 36 million suffer SOME hearing loss. Of those, only a fraction are so impaired that the amplified volume in the theatre environment doesn't compensate for that natural aging loss. And of THAT fraction, an even smaller fraction can be compensated by hearing-assist systems that provide headset receivers which use infrared or UHF transmission of the soundtrack, and of THAT fraction, an even SMALLER fraction have such severe hearing loss that they cannot use hearing aids at all -- those being the ones who would need captioned presentation of a movie.

So for that much smaller number of people, they want theatres to spend $10,000 per screen? And then there is the question of how does a theatre, which is not the producer of the content, provide captioning if the producer of the content doesn't supply it? Is the theatre owner supposed to hire a captioning company to translate the dialogue for every movie he runs in his theatre?

We had an infrared/headset system in our three theatres. In the first five years, we might have gotten less than half a dozen people requesting headsets. And our demographics are lots of older patrons in a large polulation (Brooklyn NY -- 2.5 million residence -- no small town). Then the system broke down in one theatre after another and we just never repaired or replaced them. No one since has requested headsets. We are in the process of putting in a UHF system (MUCH cheaper than infrared, btw & much more reliable), but the ADA Act, while I recognize the need, it has some outlandish and unreasonable requirements. For example the requirement for number of headsets that you are supposed to have on hand is a percentage of seats and is something like 10%, so in our 2500 house, it means we need to supply 250 headsets. For any given show, we have never EVER had requests from more than two patrons at any one time. Can you imagine having to have 250 units available to comply yet having such a much smaller demand? And that's for hearing impaired patrons -- it doesn't cover deaf people.

So on the off chance we get a deaf person who needs to READ the dialogue, we would also have to install a closed captioning system? And I will bet that for a 2500 seat house, that system is going to cost a lot more than the quoted $10,000 in the article.

So now I put in a $10,000 close caption system for that one person who may show up for one show every two or three years; what films are going to be supplied by the distributor with CC? And what about live shows? How do I close caption a show that is live? For THAT we would need to provide someone to sign -- would a theatre need to provide a professional signer to translate? Where does it end?

I have no problem requiring business to provide REASONABLE accommodations for the disabled, but at some point where it become simply impossible or such an enormous economic burden as to threaten a business financially, you have to say, you know what, maybe some handicaps cannot be overcome just by passing laws. After all, a handicap is just that -- a condition that limits what is possible.

Let's take it one step further -- how is a theatre supposed to accommodate the deaf-blind person? Should it be required to provide someone to sit next to that patron and do tactile signing? Sure it could be done, but is it reasonable? I guess that is what lawsuits will determine.

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Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 12-06-2010 01:32 AM      Profile for Jesse Skeen   Email Jesse Skeen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Back when there were still a lot of theaters with mono sound, I should have thought to sue them, being that I COULD hear and they weren't meeting my needs.

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Jonathan Smith
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 201
From: Youngstown, OH
Registered: Jan 2010


 - posted 12-06-2010 11:27 AM      Profile for Jonathan Smith   Email Jonathan Smith   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is this one of those things where they grandfather the older theatres in, but the new buildings have to have every conceivable piece of modern safety garbage, plus all the booth safeties that consider movies to still be made on nitrate film?

Then the fire marshalls come upstairs and say "Oh, so you don't just run DVDs up here?"

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 12-06-2010 02:01 PM      Profile for Bill Enos   Email Bill Enos   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Seems like most of this kind of shit originates in California, can the other 49 states vote this idiot heaven out of the country?

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