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Topic: Art films and profitability?

Jon P. Inghram
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 124
From: Wichita, KS USA
Registered: Jan 2007

posted 07-12-2008 01:26 PM

http://www.kansas.com/101/story/458261.html

quote:
Inner-city movie theaters routinely struggle with profitability, Warren said, unlike their suburban counterparts. He has said Old Town is a consistent money-loser but has declined to give specific figures.

The secret to inner-city profitability, said a board member of the National Association of Theatre Owners, is art movies.

Anybody running art movies in a downtown area, or had a downtown theater not do well because it wasn't running art films?

[ 07-12-2008, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: Jon P. Inghram ]

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 07-12-2008 02:20 PM

deleted

[ 07-14-2008, 04:14 AM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]

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Jon P. Inghram
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 124
From: Wichita, KS USA
Registered: Jan 2007

posted 07-12-2008 02:48 PM

.

[ 07-14-2008, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Jon P. Inghram ]

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James Westbrook
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1133
From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 07-13-2008 05:29 PM

You have to have a downtown of size in a city to have a theatre there and the town has to be supportive of art film, which a lot of cities of 200,000 population, like Lubbock, simply doesn't have. It also matters not how large the local university is, as most of the students are too broke to attend art movies but will instead chose main-stream fare when they can afford to go.

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 07-13-2008 05:59 PM

A downtown art theater would not make it here without some major major financial backing. Ticket sales alone wouldn't even come close.

Art films don't do well here, and this MSA has about 2,000,000 people in it and a university (well, UNLV anyway [Big Grin]

). I have to hand it to REG and Cinemark for at least trying to keep a couple of screens available for art product. But most of the art product that is out there at any given time doesn't play here - the bookers know this market. Those of us that would like to see these films here generally have to wait for the video.

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Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2253
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 07-13-2008 10:28 PM

The figure that usually isn't available is how those big city theatres do with "art films" vs. main stream releases. While many "art" films may routinely make $20K or more when they play in New York and LA, many theatres in those same cities may do well over $100K on the opening weekend of a major block buster. I know the Metreon in San Francisco did something like $300K for the opening weekend of 300.

I think what may be the issue here is the survival of a single screen or twin theatre that tries to play the same stuff as the multiplex out at the local mall. In those cases, many people will go to the mall location because of easier access, more parking, more show times selections, etc. But if the downtown theatre is the only one playing smaller films like The Visitor, then obviously that's where patrons are going to go.

Also, it's important to remember that many "art" films attract a very small portion of the population. In a city like New York, the movie is still going to put up an impressive gross if it's only pulling ½% of the population. But when that same move plays in a city of only 20,000, it's going to translate to a lot of empty showings.

The one advantage many art houses have over first run theatres is they usually only have to play the movies one week rather than 2-3 weeks for first runs. That means they can have fresh product every weekend. If you only have 1-2 screens, it can be a killer to constantly have one screen under performing due to 2 week minimums.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 07-13-2008 11:20 PM

"Art films" tend to do much better in cities like New York and Los Angeles because both cities have major creative industries, lots of museums, schools that teach art and film, etc. There's a much larger built in audience for independent film in NY and LA. Often the filmmakers will personally promote their films in both places and even do things like arrange special screenings at universities.

NY and LA also have more in the way of press that covers independent film releases. Most cities in America don't have that sort of thing. That hurts the word of mouth factor.

Publicity and marketing usually makes the difference between how well a film performs. The major studios are able to put a lot more money into it.

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Jon P. Inghram
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 124
From: Wichita, KS USA
Registered: Jan 2007

posted 07-14-2008 12:29 PM

Not counting the sports bar, we've got 5 screens. What I'm hoping they do is convert the sports bar into more of a dinner theater and use it to show the art films, sporting events, and older movies (on Blu-ray, or DVD if not available in HD yet.)

I don't have a clue if the area is large enough (or cares enough [Big Grin]

) to support an all-art-film theater, Wichita's population is around 356,000, the metro area about 597,000.

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 07-14-2008 01:25 PM

quote: Jon P. Inghram
older movies (on Blu-ray, or DVD if not available in HD yet.)

why, why, WHY? show them on film! that's what you're there for!

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 07-14-2008 01:31 PM

quote: Jon P. Inghram
to support an all-art-film theater, Wichita's population is around 356,000, the metro area about 597,000.

The capital city of Idaho has this Art Theatre (which I service) ,it's been in successful business since 1984 and Boise is half the size of Wichita and it's surroundings.

quote:
show them on film! that's what you're there for!

He probably would - if the prints are still available. Also, if he's doing video, he's not (and can't be) charging admits.

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Jon P. Inghram
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 124
From: Wichita, KS USA
Registered: Jan 2007

posted 07-14-2008 01:55 PM

They claim they're going to go all digital so running a film print wouldn't work, which also makes me wonder about how easily they'll be able to run art films.

And I thought you can obtain rights to videos to charge admission? I was thinking of Blu-ray or DVD as I assume there are many more films available that way than as proper digital prints.

It's also quite possible they'll change their minds and keep some film projectors, but I really don't know as the way I've found out about news at our theater has mostly been my dad calling and saying "Hey, did you see the article in the paper about what they're doing at your theater?" [Roll Eyes]

quote: Monte L Fullmer
The capital city of Idaho has this Art Theatre (which I service) ,it's been in successful business since 1984 and Boise is half the size of Wichita and it's surroundings.

That's a reassuring bit info, thanks!

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-14-2008 02:30 PM

quote: Jon P. Inghram
I thought you can obtain rights to videos to charge admission?

You probably can, unless it's Disney, and even then you probably can if you throw enough money at them.

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James Westbrook
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1133
From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 07-15-2008 02:48 AM

In reference to the art theatre in Boise, I'm glad I'm wrong.
Maybe that would work here...

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 07-15-2008 09:11 AM

Art films just have to be marketed in such a way that the public in a given community will know what film is playing and what the film is about.

Every now and then our local Carmike theater will show an independent film. Unless it's something that has had a lot of media coverage the show will likely play to empty theaters.

Another problem is those art films will sometimes show up at the theater with little advance notice. Some big release bombs badly and it gets cleared out leaving some available screens and then something different gets thrown in to replace it. I think it really helps if the theater has some way to let the public know weeks in advance what movies they'll be playing. That will do more to get the public to anticipate the release of certain independent films. Unfortunately it seems like only independently operated movie theaters are able to provide customers with any such convenience.

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Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2253
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 07-15-2008 12:33 PM

Because my theatre is a small market, we are usually way down the food chain when it comes to getting smaller films. While we may want to play some of these films, we often have to wait until way beyond the point where people are still talking about them. And when we do get one, it's often at the last minute so we don't have an opportunity to run trailers or display the one-sheets for a few weeks ahead of time.

It would help immensely if we were able to actually get a confirmed date 3-4 weeks ahead of time. But then we always seem to run into the issue of a studio release having better legs than expected or a week with 4-5 studio releases.

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