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Author Topic: Off duty employee caught drinking Ramin Hashemi Expert Film Handler Posts: 129 From: Houston TX Registered: Sep 2004 posted 11-09-2007 02:09 PM                     Two of our minor employees (18 yrs old) were caught drinking alcohol while watching a movie. We have a zero tolerance policy on drugs and alcohol. The person who caught them is our security officer, who does security at the high school. He says that if we do nothing, we can be charged with contributing to the deliquency of a minor. We take our policy seriously, and thus fired both of them (one admitted it, and one denied it). I have not had to deal with this before, and I hated losing one good employee over it (other employee, I can do without). Anyone had similar issues, and what did you do about it. Could I have done anything else? thanks Ramin  |  IP: Logged Frank Dubrois Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 896 From: Cleveland, OH Registered: Mar 2005 posted 11-09-2007 02:15 PM                    quote: Ramin Hashemi I hated losing one good employee Drinking in your theater, his place of employment? How good was he? Where was his respect to you, his employer? What kind of example was he setting? Good riddance to both in my opinion. Rules are rules and they must be followed. Sometimes good employees go bad, or do bad things. In that case, they must be disciplined. I think in this instance you did the right thing. If you let this go, it sets a precedent. Perhaps even an employee meeting is in order to go over rules again.  |  IP: Logged James Westbrook Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1133 From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa Registered: Mar 2006 posted 11-09-2007 04:18 PM                     I don't know about contributing to the delinquency of a minor, but unfortunately both had to be fired. I say unfortunately, because unlike Frank I do believe you can have a good employee who because of a lack of descretion screwed up, which you feel has happened here. That employee must learn from his mistake and move on. (The one employee in denial likely won't learn and will get in trouble again...but somewhere else.)  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 11-09-2007 06:21 PM                        Yeah... I'd have to agree with the above. Last Summer I fired a kitchen person who turned out to be trouble. While he was here, he more or less befriended a couple of field attendants that had worked here for a couple of years. The night I fired the guy, the field people informed me they were going to quit "in support of our friend". Within 5 minutes I had their radios, earpieces and flashlights and they were looking in from the street corner. Clearly, they hadn't expected us to be quite ready to deal with their tactic. The problem is I don't think you have any choice in the matter. Once you show you're willing to adapt the way you apply your policies, you've lost control. For all the reasons listed above... lack of maturity, bad judgment, lack of respect, stupidity above and beyond... you probably made the only choice you could.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 11-09-2007 06:33 PM                     We have a random, company-wide drug and alcohol testing program in place where I work. An incident with one employee last year caused the program to be expanded to include everyone, not just people who drove crane trucks and such. And I think that's fair. There's a lot of people in the general public who think they should be able to abuse illegal drugs and alcohol to their heart's content. Unfortunately for them, employers have the right to expect employees to be "clean" and not a walking legal/safety liability. I'm not sure how the alcohol testing thing works. It isn't something to see if you're drunk on the job right then and there. It has more to do with testing to see if you habitually binge drink. I guess there's certain proteins in your blood or urine that show liver stress or that you're just a freaking lush. Our system has a sort of "2 strikes" policy to it. If you test positive for something, depending on what it is you may get to do a few weeks of counseling and other stuff as a 2nd chance. Positive tests for certain drugs just get you immediately fired.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 11-09-2007 08:27 PM                        It is easy and fair to have a "strike one you're out policy;" but only if you apply it evenly. You will need a written list of "things that will get you fired right now...no second chances." (drunkness, drugs, weapons, surly, lieing, stealing, etc.) Make the list, have each employee sign a copy, put it in his employee file for future reference. Be fair. This is cut & dried. Louis  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 11-09-2007 09:15 PM                     At my old theater there was a kid who got caught by mall security smoking pot in one of the mall's bathrooms, got arrested, and trespassed from the mall. Hence he was fired since he wasn't allowed in the mall whatsoever. And 3-4 people got fired (including an assistant manager) when they got caught smoking pot at a staff screening (the other managers realized they were gone for quite some time and found them in the bathroom). Though each of those was a long time ago.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-10-2007 01:00 AM                        I personally don't believe in "zero tolerance" anything, because then you're locked into a course of action. I'd hate to be forced to fire an otherwise-great employee because of one screwup. People make mistakes. Many theatre employees are young kids who are still finding their way in life. I've had employees over the years who were valuable enough to me that I would tolerate a slip-up if it wasn't causing me any harm...and a good chew-out followed by a "I know you're smart enough not to make this mistake again" is better than an automatic "You're fired."  |  IP: Logged Christopher Crouch Expert Film Handler Posts: 128 From: Holywood, ca, usa Registered: May 2006 posted 11-10-2007 03:43 AM                  quote: Ramin Hashemi Anyone had similar issues, and what did you do about it. Could I have done anything else? I've had a few similar incidents over the years. In my opinion, you did the right thing. Anything less would have left the door open for future problems.  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 11-10-2007 07:22 AM                        so i assume they were drinking on the job then, and not just watching a movie on their free time. otherwise, unless they had glass bottles or were or something, i don't see what the issue is. you didn't sell it to them, did you? edit: the topic title says they were off duty...  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 11-10-2007 12:22 PM                     Though how could the theater owner be charged with anything? Contributing to the delinquency of a minor is "aiding or encouraging improper conduct." Sure, he did it at your place of business but you didn't contribute to it.  |  IP: Logged James Westbrook Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1133 From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa Registered: Mar 2006 posted 11-10-2007 01:28 PM                     This was the part I had trouble wrapping my mind around: Is this some kind of California law or some local ordinance? I don't feel the theatre is responsible for the deliquency of a minor either. Some of these cops seem to have small-penis issues and like to throw their weight around and make stuff like that up. Of course, California has the reputation of being more strict than other parts of the country...  |  IP: Logged Aaron Mehocic Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 804 From: New Castle, PA, USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-10-2007 03:01 PM                     quote: Chris Slycord Contributing to the delinquency of a minor is "aiding or encouraging improper conduct." The guard may mean that, technically speaking, if the employer caught them engaged in underage drinking and DID NOT fire them the employer was at the very minimum encouraging improper conduct. quote: James Westbrook Some of these cops seem to have small-penis issues and like to throw their weight around and make stuff like that up. Which is most likely the case here. It was mentioned earlier that the guard also works in that capacity at the school these former employees attend. Perhaps his comment was a way to even the score for an altercation that began at school.  |  IP: Logged Chad Souder Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 962 From: Waterloo, IA, USA Registered: Feb 2000 posted 11-10-2007 03:08 PM                     quote: James Westbrook Some of these cops seem to have small-penis issues and like to throw their weight around and make stuff like that up. Especially when they are not even cops. Unless I'm missing something, Ramin states the person who caught them is a security officer, not a police officer. Now, I don't know the guy or know the situation, but sometimes security guys can be, how should I say, not so accurate with their interpretation of the law. I'm not saying you shouldn't have fired them - that's your theatre to run - but I don't see any possible way you could have actually been charged with contributing. Then again, California has some VERY weird laws. My question that I cannot get answered by reading your post, is was this during a regular show with other guests, or was it after hours? I am assuming it was during operating hours unless your security guy stays late. If that is the case, I think there is some grey area here. Essentially, it was a couple underage kids drinking in your theatre, which probably happens on a monthly basis. I know it happens here. Again, I'm not saying you shouldn't have fired them - its your theatre. But had you found them to be drinking elsewhere on their free time would you have been so tough? Odds are most of us managers are well aware that some of our underage employees drink and so long as it doesn't affect their quality of work, we don't pay much attention. This was in the building, but while off work, so I think its a judgement call, not an open-and-shut case. You asked, "Could I have done anything else". I think the answer is yes, you could have, but I don't know for sure if you would have wanted to. I'm with Mike on the second chance ideology. How many of us at one time snuck a little booze in the theatre or drive-in when we were younger? Is California a "right to work" state?  |  IP: Logged Tony Ratcliff Expert Film Handler Posts: 216 From: Madison, IN, USA Registered: Mar 2002 posted 11-10-2007 03:18 PM                     I have only had to fire one person for "substance" abuse. We suspected he smoked pot on his break and we eventually caught him. It was a shame because he was a good worker and not really a bad kid - he just hung with a bad crowd and had low self-esteem. I think you have to have a zero-tolerance for certain things, like substance abuse and insubordination. I fired a girl once for getting into an argument and cussing out a customer and then not doing what my Asst-Mgr said when she told the girl to stop. Her Mom called me all upset, threatening to sue, etc. I realized then where the girl got the attitude from. Now, for general laziness or not doing all your job or maybe back talking in private, or money issues, I'll use the 3-strikes rule.  |  IP: Logged

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