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Author Topic: Fake Doctor's Notes Dennis Benjamin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1445 From: Denton, MD Registered: Feb 2002 posted 07-05-2006 03:01 PM                        Just found out today that one of my employees provided me with a fake doctor's note in June. The employee and her mother are going to be contacted by the physician in regards to the forgery. I have actually never had to deal with this - or at least known that a note was fake before. I was wondering about legal implications. Obviously, I may have to let her go - no question there. I guess if she had received sick pay - there would be an legal issue on our end - but she did not. I guess the doctor who's name was forged would take action against them if necessary? I have been looking around the Internet for info -but everything is really vague......  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 07-05-2006 03:25 PM                        Telling lies is always a firing offense. Louis  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 07-05-2006 03:29 PM                        If your theatre or insurance company suffered financial loss, you could sue for fraud. The doctor in question should be sure that prescriptions were not also forged, and should report the incident to the proper authorities.  |  IP: Logged Dave Williams Wet nipple scene Posts: 1836 From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA Registered: Jan 2000 posted 07-05-2006 11:40 PM                        When it comes to doctor's notes, there are several legal issues to take into consideration. 1. Depending on your company's policy on sick time will depend on what legal actions you can take. If they are allowed to take sick days, paid or unpaid, it would depend on if you require medical certification to qualify for time off from work, paid or unpaid. 2. Your company's size will also come into play. If your company falls under FMLA (family medical leave act), then you cannot take any action against an employee if they provide proper medical certification. Employees are not required to provide medical records, nor can you request them. 3. If your company does not have a sick policy, and does not fall under FMLA, calling in sick can very well be protected depending on the laws of your state. 4. If your company does have a policy on sick and attendance, and does not fall under FMLA, calling in sick outside of policy is a termination offence on the first offence, if the policy is written appropriately. 5. If an employee is required to provide medical certification to be sick from work, and does so, and it later turns out that the certification is fraudulent, it is a termination offence. 6. If an employee is NOT required to provide medical certification, but is requested to do so by the employer, and does so, and it later found to be fraudulent, the EMPLOYER is at fault for violation of privacy, even though the note was forged. 7. If an employee is NOT required to provide medical certification to be sick, but provides it anyway without the employer requesting it, and the note turns out to be forged, it is a termination offence. Make sure that in this case that there can be absolutely no hint of anyone in the company giving any idea at all that this note was necessary if it in fact was not. So it really is subjective depending on your individual company's situation. In most cases, it is a termination offence. Still, you have to make very darn sure that if you terminate for this, that you do have all the legal grounds covered. Ciao  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 07-06-2006 02:36 PM                     Why not skirt the termination issues by keeping the person on the schedule but cut the hours to one shift every 3 or 4 weeks;.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Mehocic Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 804 From: New Castle, PA, USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-06-2006 06:46 PM                     Doctors excusses are as lame as dog-ate-homework excuses. When my students produce one I tell them I don't even want to see it. If they leave one on the podium before I arrive for class, I'll take it home and burn it solely for their confidentiality in obtaining it (fake or not). In the case of the employee producing one, it was entirely unnecessary UNLESS the sickness/injury was work related or sick pay was involved (and we already deduced the latter was not). Our society is too excuse oriented. Either you're there or not there - school, work - doesn't matter. If she died tomorrow somebody will take her place, excuse or not.  |  IP: Logged Caleb Johnstone-Cowan Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 593 From: London, UK Registered: Mar 2006 posted 07-06-2006 07:07 PM                     "Why not skirt the termination issues by keeping the person on the schedule but cut the hours to one shift every 3 or 4 weeks;." Do you have legislation against constructive dismissal in the US, and if so wouldn't this come under it? Also if someone faked a doctors note would you really want them working for you at all?  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 07-06-2006 09:12 PM                     If you terminate someone you'd better have the circumstances well documented in case the make an issue of it. If the individual is is a minority, documentation is extremely important in case they claim they were terminated because of their ethnicity.  |  IP: Logged Paul J. Neuhaus Expert Film Handler Posts: 126 From: Iraq.. Again! Registered: Jun 2005 posted 07-07-2006 12:31 AM                     Bill, Please do not give this as advice. I have seen this is in practice too many times it is just bad leadership. It means you don't have enough respect for your employees to shoot them straight and tell them that they are not living up to your expectations. When you just change around their schedule untill they don't show up anymore you get a disgruntled employee. Also you get one that you don't see that often. When the day comes that they don't show up or they are working below par you are punishing the other employees because you have created a bad working environment and that would be YOUR fault not just theirs. A lack of integrity on anybody's part is inexcusable and should be met with swift action. I see where you are coming from Bill but it is just bad advice. Never be afraid of standing behind your convictions.  |  IP: Logged Charles Greenlee Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 801 From: Savannah, Ga, U.S. Registered: Jun 2006 posted 07-07-2006 01:13 AM                        I couldn't agree more. I've seen people "fired" that way too many times, and it pisses me off. The cowardace of the management, and their cheating the employee, even if he deserves to be fired. They do it because an employee quitting or abandoning is alot less paperwork, it's alot neater meaning the employee is less likely to contest it. And the company doesn't get a hit on their unemployment.  |  IP: Logged Lance C. McFetridge Expert Film Handler Posts: 135 From: Penn Yan, New York Registered: Jul 99 posted 07-07-2006 10:16 AM                     We operate in an "at will" state. No need for an explaination to dismiss. This keeps us from defending ourselves. I fire at will. If the employee is dishonest with you, does management have an obligation to tell them why they are terminated? I don't think so. lance  |  IP: Logged Mitchell Dvoskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1869 From: West Milford, NJ, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 07-07-2006 10:55 AM                     I think that everyone somewhat blowing this out of proportion. Teenagers will be teenagers, and most of us did some stupid things as teenagers. The question really is, do you want to keep the employee or not? If the answer is that this was one bone headed mistake in an otherwise good employee, then take appropriate action. If not, then get rid of him/her. The fake note is an issue between the kid and his doctor. As the note was false, your issue in this case is an unexcused absense from work and lying. You can always find a reason, including this reason, to fire someone. In either event, it should be formally written up. I'm with the majority, don't cut the hours. Either take action or not as you feel the situation warrents.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 07-07-2006 11:28 AM                        The very best employment practice I have ever seen is to distribute 2 copies of the "10 things that will get you fired NOW" list to each employee at the time of hiring; employee signs one copy which is kept in his file. ANY infraction is subject to immediate dismissal; no warnings. You go through a lot of people, but the ones you keep are solid gold. You establish that this is routine procedure. This is basically the UPS system. Louis  |  IP: Logged Chad Souder Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 962 From: Waterloo, IA, USA Registered: Feb 2000 posted 07-07-2006 08:48 PM                     quote: Lance C. McFetridge We operate in an "at will" state Iowa is the same way - no reasons needed. You already stated "no question there" about letting her go, so all this discussion about your company policy is pointless. I think you need only to look at Maryland's laws on dismissal, as every state could be different, but I'm interpreting your post as questioning more about legal implications regarding whether or not you should try to take legal action against her. I think impersonating a physician is up there with impersonating a police officer, so call your local cop-shop, but it's probably one of those things that they'll have better things to tend to than deal with her. Whether or not the doctor decides to press charges would be very important.  |  IP: Logged Charles Greenlee Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 801 From: Savannah, Ga, U.S. Registered: Jun 2006 posted 07-08-2006 04:48 AM                        I would like to see those 10 commanments "Top 10 things that will get you fired NOW" Maybe somethine we could/should include here.  |  IP: Logged

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