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Author Topic: Damaged Print Cost John Carpenter Film Handler Posts: 96 From: Fort Walton Beach, FL, USA Registered: Nov 2002 posted 04-12-2003 05:51 PM                     Has anyone had an "unfortunate" experience where they had to replace an entire print due to "operator error"? Where you ever informed how much this cost the company? Just as a point, in 3 years here this is a first...  |  IP: Logged Aaron Mehocic Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 804 From: New Castle, PA, USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-12-2003 06:22 PM                     I destroyed Dennis The Menace (sp) . I just chalked it up as a training error since it was my first year in the booth. Was told it cost about $1200 to replace. I have no idea if that was the truth or not.  |  IP: Logged John Carpenter Film Handler Posts: 96 From: Fort Walton Beach, FL, USA Registered: Nov 2002 posted 04-12-2003 06:53 PM                     Thanks - that is about what I had always heard (about 200 a reel) but I dont know. We had our head projectionist training someone last night and the trainee must have misthreaded something that the trainer somehow didn't catch. At least we normally have a really good record here unlike some theatres I have visited in the past.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 04-12-2003 07:04 PM                        Has anyone ever asked for proof of a print being destroyed after having to pay for its replacement? If I ever damage a print I'd probably demand some proof before handing over any money. BTW, John Pytlak has mentioned many times in the past that a print costs the studio about $300 a week with a lifetime of about 4 weeks, so $1200 sounds right.  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 04-12-2003 07:16 PM                  Large format 870/1570 40-minute prints can cost $20,000.00 or more to replace. Most theatres and maintenance companies have print damage and replacement insurance. >>> Phil  |  IP: Logged Dustin Mitchell Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1865 From: Mondovi, WI, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 04-12-2003 08:10 PM                     It might cost the studio $1,200 to run off a release print but I'm pretty sure they'd charge the theatre more than that for a replacement, sort of a punitive measure. The only time we've had to order a new reel in the last six years because of damage done at the theatre it cost us $400.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Mehocic Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 804 From: New Castle, PA, USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-12-2003 10:30 PM                     I think we had to replace some reels of Chicken Run due to a novice mistake one of our now-seasoned operators made using Speco 270 platters. He forgot to turn on the take up button and walked away from the machine without checking if everything was OK. Needless to say, the film piled up into a massive heap before wrapping backwards around the intermittent . All the Chief-of-Staff (3rd in charge) wanted to know was how long until I could have it back on again. I told him bluntly he was .  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-12-2003 10:38 PM                        You have an unattended booth without failsafes? Shame, shame!  |  IP: Logged Aaron Mehocic Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 804 From: New Castle, PA, USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-12-2003 11:18 PM                     No, No, Not Now! To make a long story short, we had just added these new auditoriums onto our existing infrastructure and all of us were getting used to the Speco products. Not all the failsafes were hooked up as our company policy is: Seats and Screen = Show (that says a lot if you read into it). Currently all of our equipment is wired with failsafe protection. Also, our booth is not unattended, but it is divided into three rooms. In defense of the operator and with respect to the time block he was starting shows, there was no possible way he could have returned to the room the problem occured in. He was literally on the otherside of the booth. As head projectionist I stay in the booth for 90% of my shift and my example does wear off on the others. Thats a testament to their dedication as well .  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-13-2003 03:44 AM                     A little tip, if a studio wants you to pay for a damaged print, you have a certain amount of legal right to demand the damaged item be returned to you for inspection and since you are paying for it...it's yours! So what do you want Mr. Studio, my money or your damaged print? Stand your ground on keeping that print and you have great odds you won't be paying for it if it was a one time accident. People like Valenti have brainwashed the studios into thinking that if there is one single print out in the public somewhere that could be bootlegged, it will be and it will cost the industry billions and billions of dollars. As a result, the studio will generally choose the print be returned (so they can destroy the already destroyed print themselves). Of course never mind the "Academy screener" DVDs and videotapes that are sent out by the case of movies still in theaters. It's those damn prints that are the problem! Videos and DVDs are way too hard to copy to be a threat.  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 04-13-2003 09:12 AM                     You might not be entitled to the keep the damaged print, depending on what their claim is. according to an acquaintance who is an attorney. According to him, since the print is being rented, their claim is for their loss, also the agreement contract with the studio, distributors etc. probably doesn't allow the theatre to take ownership at all under any circumstances.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-13-2003 01:54 PM                     I said a certain amount of legal right. Seen it happen multiple times where the theater side held their ground demanding to keep the damaged item they were paying for and was excused from paying. Remember, if the theater always takes care of their film and every once in a blue moon something happens on a wide release, it's not the end of the world for the studio. Screwing around with a payment vs. a print debate isn't worth their hassle much of the time. Plus there is the whole counter argument of "the print was going to be destroyed anyway" as well as a grudge between the theater and the studio which could affect the studio's future bookings in that location or chain. Since these prints have become throwaway items (not repertory or indie stuff), it's really not worth fighting the rare accident when the theater otherwise returns nice prints. You would also hear of a LOT of billings for damaged prints if this wasn't the case.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-13-2003 02:17 PM                     I think any arguments about "legal" rights are on very sketchy ground, and we're probably best off not trying to have that discussion... (I will say no more on this topic). In any case, this whole issue is very much complicated by the fact that the cost to produce an entire print is not all terribly much related to the value of the print. For instance, let's say you damaged a print of Basic today. It opened 2 weekends ago in 2,876 theatres and is playing in 2,246 theatres today (that's theatres, not screens, per Box Office Mojo). So that's at least 630 prints that are sitting around doing nothing that are unlikely to ever be wanted again. If you damaged a print today and Sony tried to charge you $1,200, you'd have a very good argument to tell them they were being unreasonable. (One expects them to charge shipping, of course). So pretty much the only time you could be reasonably stuck with the full cost of the print is at the beginning of the run (all prints are playing in first run theatres "on the break"), or at the end of the run or in repertory, when you can assume that the excess prints have been junked. Dustin Mitchell said, "but I'm pretty sure they'd charge the theatre more than that for a replacement, sort of a punitive measure". How "sure" is "pretty sure"? I'd be quite curious to see details of such punitive charges. What studio charged you $400 for a single reel? Are you sure of that number, or might it have been either anecdotal or a threat that was never followed through? --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Dustin Mitchell Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1865 From: Mondovi, WI, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 04-13-2003 04:48 PM                     It was reel for of 'The Skulls,' a universal release. The charge showed up on our P&L's.  |  IP: Logged Jeff Taylor Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 601 From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY Registered: Apr 2000 posted 04-14-2003 08:44 AM                     In addition to the paranoia of bootlegging which Brad mentioned in his suggestion that the theater demand the print they are paying for, there's also the "doctrine of first sale" which MANY 16mm collectors have hidden behind. Basically, it's a case that if a distributor ever sold a print of a title as was formerly done with libraries and educational institutions he can't then turn around and prosecute someone else who owns a print because (i) who knows it wasn't the print he legally sold, and (ii) you opened the floodgates by legally selling a print, so now you can't complain that someone owns one. That's the primary reason that it was more common to use life of print leases in those situations.  |  IP: Logged

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