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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Ground Level   » When presentation DOESN'T matter (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: When presentation DOESN'T matter
Brent Mahaney
Film Handler

Posts: 43
From: Bowling Green, Kentucky, USA
Registered: Dec 2001


 - posted 02-20-2002 12:24 AM      Profile for Brent Mahaney     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Consider this scenario. Two companies have 12 screens each in a competitive market, which means that they basically split the A movies 50/50. One company's theatres are in TERRIBLE shape, not to mention (and I kid you not when I say this) that they have AT LEAST 2 or 3 shows a week go down. They don't start in frame, they jump out because of incorrect splices, they are consistently out of focus, the sound is notorious for randomly dropping out, and when a show goes down, they can't get it started again so they pass out refund passes with no apology. The people in the city KNOW what they're in for when they walk in the door of these theatres...but guess what? They keep going because this company is going to get 1/2 of the A movies no matter how terrible they are. This ridiculous "competitive" market is hurting the customers. Sure, they don't have to go to the bad theatres (which would actually be the smart thing to do because it would eventually drive them out of business). However, we all know that if you get the big movies, you're going to stay in business on that principle alone.

And you know, I don't think the studios care. It seems to me that you would want your big releases shown under the best circumstances possible. But the fact of the matter is that in this market, if you own sub-par theatres, you'll still get the movies because that's the rules.

It's a shame.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-20-2002 12:57 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
This has been brought up before and I think the general consensus here on the forums is that it would definitely be better to let any theater play a given film, rather than to split product. What you said is really the bottom line. Those theaters that have not been kept up, have poor management/staff, and a lousy presentation will simply fold and the remaining theaters will be about quality.


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Jim Casterioto
Film Handler

Posts: 32
From: Wilmington, DE, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 02-20-2002 07:21 AM      Profile for Jim Casterioto   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Casterioto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I could not agree with you more Brent, the theater I work at receives about 75% of the new releases. The competition only stays in business because once out of every three or four months they receive the one big film, i.e. Titanic, Star Wars, Pearl Harbor. Customers in the area bash this theater, and always wish that we show every movie that comes out, and it is difficult to explain to them that is out of our hands.

Does anyone know of a specific rule preventing one theater from showing a movie? My impression is that there has to be a ten mile radius between two theaters.

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Barry Floyd
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1079
From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-20-2002 08:29 AM      Profile for Barry Floyd   Author's Homepage   Email Barry Floyd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Did anyone see the latest Boxoffice Magazine?? I got mine in the mail yesterday, and they have a section in the magazine which lets readers respond to previous articles and "letters to the editor".

One of the letters this month came from a guy in the Hollywood / L.A. area who was responding to a side-by-side comaparison of digital vs. film. The movie they were comparing was run with alternating reels switching between digital & 35mm. He summed up his response by saying, "sure the digital presentation on the 55 foot screen showed digital artifacts, the colors were washed out in certain areas, and some of the items looked like a bad duped VHS tape, with the current state of projection and presentation in todays theatres, the average movie going public won't be able to tell the difference or just won't care".

If anyone has seen it, I be interested in your response as well. He basically said, "So what if it sucks, film does too."

------------------
Barry Floyd
Floyd Entertainment Group
Nashville, Tennessee
(Drive-In Theatre - Start-Up)

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-20-2002 11:27 AM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Five miles is the usual radius for split requests. I absolutely believe in splitting product, as it is the only way to keep the Wal-marts of exhibiton from killing off independents.


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Zach Zagar
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Jefferson City, MO
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-20-2002 12:32 PM      Profile for Zach Zagar   Author's Homepage   Email Zach Zagar   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the giants kill off independants just as easily with split booking. For instance...

"Oh you wanna open a theater across the street from me and offer better customer service? I'll show you..."

<calling Hollywood execs>

"Hi this is Mr. AMC Carmikeregalgeneral, and if you give any product to the guy across the street, we will not play your product in markets where we are the only theater."


I think the new guy should use their uncorporate hands, that are not tied, to use the best possible customer service. Sometimes the chains can tie your hands by old policy that is outdated, while a smaller chain, or a single theater, alone, has ability to change rather quickly, as well as tend to give a little more touch of personality when dealing with their customers.

I think direct competition would eliminate the inferior theaters, the theaters we don't want to go to. Granted, there will be some indys that shouldn't be open either, and also, chain doesn't equal bad in all cases, they're just under a bigger microscope.


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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-20-2002 12:55 PM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Consider this scenario. Two companies have 12 screens each in a competitive market, which means that they basically split the A movies 50/50. One company's theatres are in TERRIBLE shape,

This sounds just like Decatur, AL, where the Regal River Oaks Cinema 8 has exceptional presentation quality and the Carmike Century Cinema 8 has had poor presentation quality for years, but both theatres do about the same amount of business because they each get 50 percent of the movies. Csrmike really has no incentive to improve their presentation quality, except to avoid negative articles in the Decatur Daily when things get too bad. If both theatres could show the same movies, the Carmike would go out of business quickly. A major problem with allowing theatres to show the same movies in the same region would be that each theatre would have to have more screens. For example, Decatur has 16 screens, with (mostly) different movies. If each 8-plex could show the same movies, there would probably not be many more than 8 movies playing in Decatur at any time, so selection would not be as good for moviegoers.


------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Information Site


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-20-2002 01:06 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Barry Floyd said: "If anyone has seen it, I be interested in your response as well. He basically said, "So what if it sucks, film does too."

Mediocrity should NOT be an excuse for more mediocrity.

IMHO, "Film Done Right" can easily deliver quality superior to any Digital Cinema system available today. Almost every "problem" layed at the door of film presentation can be traced to unreasonable cost-cutting, or not using the tools available today to maintain quality images for hundreds of showings. I would venture to say the "problem" theatres don't use film cleaners, have minimal or non-existant maintenance, and expect miracles from under-trained, unmotivated, and poorly supervised booth personnel.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 585-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 585-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 02-20-2002 01:22 PM      Profile for Jim Ziegler   Email Jim Ziegler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If perfect digital looks like bad film presentation, then I just have to wonder what a bad digital presentation would look like? THe same people who are too lazy to focus a film are going to be too lazy to focus the DLP too...

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-20-2002 01:40 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Zach wrote: "Hi this is Mr. AMC Carmikeregalgeneral, and if you give any product to the guy across the street, we will not play your product in markets where we are the only theater."

It just doesn't work this way. There was an independent a few years ago who took a larger chain to court over non-competetive practices, won big time, and used a lot of the money to improve his theatres and build more. Any independent with a brain just needs to respond to a loss of the split with threat of legal action.

There are always subtle games that are played, but never anything as obvious as what you suggest.

Although I don't know the individual situation, the problem as described in Huntsville, may occur because of something like this:

A lease entered into under certain good economic conditions demands that the new theatre must stay open even if the business to justify it isn't there. This allows the landlord certain benefits, such as leasing surrounding parcels with that guarantee of at least some traffic flow, reduced danger of a "dead" mall, insurance against damage, etc. The theatre circuit must agree to the terms to get the space and not lose it to a competitor.

If the theatre owner has other locations under the same corporate banner, he can't close that theatre when it starts losing money. This was a major problem with many of the circuits prior to the bankruptcy proceedings.

In contrast, an independent will go out of business at a negative cash flow theatre, as a fluid free market economy would normally demand.

The problem translates to the public as a circuit theatre that has no money for maintenance or even day-to-day costs. The primary incentive of the circuit is to minimize the financial bleeding. Getting a popular film brings in more cash at no added outlay, so booking goes on as normal, while all other expenses are chopped to the bone.

Incentives for improvement can also be blocked by other factors. The last year of a lease may dictate no phyical improvements. Wage limitations (often based on a theatre's performance) may dictate lesser quality managers be used at the location. There are many other possibilities.

Split booking and cash-loss theatres are really two different issues. If anything should be made illegal, it is the "must operate" clause in leases that should be banned.


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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-20-2002 02:54 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Short and sweet what it boils down to is that the film companies don't want one good theatre in any town. They would prefer two good theatres, but one good and one poor, or two poor, will do just as well. If poor presentation began affecting bookings you wouldn't see a mass revival of independants like some of you may think. Independant theatres can have just as shitty-or sometimes worse-presentation than chain theatres. Instead, the big boys would quickly sit up and take notice, and we'd see a return to good presentation. This in turn would get them all the product and create a lot of single chain markets. Then the theaory that spurred the building spree would actually come true-big chains could use their sole control of large numbers of makrets to negotiate better terms. "No, Mr. Lucas, if you do not give us 75/25 on Episode 2 your film won't play to 1/3 of the secondary markets in the country." The film companies will never let this happen.


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John Gordon
Film Handler

Posts: 62
From: Earth
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 02-20-2002 03:44 PM      Profile for John Gordon   Email John Gordon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Barry,
For more info on the film vs. digital, check out the thread "Film vs. Digital Projection" in this forum.


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-20-2002 04:45 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Anytime you have a paying customer, presentation ALWAYS matters......

If you are training projectionists, and you are using scrap previews or other stuff, then have a ball. Chances are, when you run your projectionists through an obsticle course like I do, you come equipped with a pair of scissors, club-feet, and anything else to make their day miserable...


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Dennis Benjamin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1445
From: Denton, MD
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 02-20-2002 07:37 PM      Profile for Dennis Benjamin   Author's Homepage   Email Dennis Benjamin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I concur. Presentation always matters. I work in a zone where a theatre plays day and date with us on everything (they are 1.3 miles away). We win in the presentation part. People that I have spoke to say that we have a better picture and better sound. However, as with anything else - they won't tell you unless you ask. The one trend I have noticed in the past five years is that people care less about presentation overall. The only time I hear about it is when the competition really messes up and the customers show up here to see the movie (because their projector is down - or an electrical problem.) Of course, we accept their emergency tickets.........

------------------
"Running through life at 24 frames per second"

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Mike Spaeth
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1129
From: Marietta, GA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 02-20-2002 08:20 PM      Profile for Mike Spaeth   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Spaeth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Competitive markets - gotta love em.

I was in a 50-50 product quanity and quality split for awhile (except for Universal). This is where you benefit from having a good booker that can shmooze and make deals, and try to catch the other company's booker asleep at the wheel (or not paying close attention to that particular market). Let's examine the 2001 Universal allocations for this location.

My theater: The Mummy Returns; The Fast & the Furious; Jurassic Park III; K-PAX; Spy Game; A Beautiful Mind.

Competition: Head Over Heels; Josie and the Pussycats; American Pie 2; Captain Corelli's Mandolin; The Musketeer.

Seem like a 50-50 split to you? This is in an 8-screen vs 8-screen market!

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