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Author Topic: Cyberworld-IMAX
Edwin Graf Diemer
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Red Bank, NJ, USA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 11-16-2000 09:35 PM      Profile for Edwin Graf Diemer   Email Edwin Graf Diemer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Fantastic effects, and the story is quite good, considering they had to find a way to tie the various shorts together. I saw it at the UA IMAX in their new King Of Prussia Theater, PA. I've seen each of their IMAX presentations since they opened earlier this year, and have been constantly impressed with their presentation. The first time I saw "Fantasia 2000" there, the print had some light scratches, but it had obviously been replaced by last weekend.

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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-01-2001 12:41 AM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Attendance: Regal Opry Mills 20 IMAX, Nashville, TN, Auditorium 21, 2001/03/31 17:25

This was not only the first IMAX movie I'd seen that wasn't projected on a dome-type screen, but was the first 3D movie I'd ever seen. I'd always been skeptical about the 3D process, but was amazed at how well the goggles worked.

I really enjoy computer animation, and have collected many DVDs of such material. In fact, one of the segments in Cyberworld 3D was "Liberation" by the Pet Shop Boys, which I've seen many times, but never like this. IMAX resolution is wonderful. All of the segments were very real-looking and in 3D, I kept wanting to reach out and touch things that appeared to be a few inches in front of me (and dodge things that appeared to be coming right at me) . Although I'd seen the "Antz" and "Liberation" segments before, seeing them rendered at IMAX resolution made me realize how much higher the IMAX resolution really is. I noticed details in the background of the "Antz" scene that I never paid any attention to in the 35mm showing or the DVD. I think IMAX is a great way to show off computer animation, and Cyberworld certainly achieves that goal!

The screen appeared to be 92 feet wide, as best I could tell.

Evans A Criswell


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Mark Lensenmayer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1576
From: Upper Arlington, OH
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 04-02-2001 02:00 PM      Profile for Mark Lensenmayer   Email Mark Lensenmayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Evans, I agree completely on this title. This picture is just pure eye candy. The Pet Shop Boys section was my favorite part. I saw the film 4 times (it's nice to have an Imax theatre within 10 miles. I also have an 8/70 Iwerks theatre about 4 miles away. Ah, life in the big city!!!)

Any way, I have a request for anyone either running this film or seeing it soon. In the Simpson's section, there are some floating strings of numbers. It looked to me like it might be hex code. The Simpson's creators are notorious for putting in hidden goodies, and this would be a good place for one.

If anyone gets the chance, would you copy down the numbers so we could try and figure them out? I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,

Mark Lensenmayer

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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-02-2001 04:51 PM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
About the Simpsons section:

I noticed "P=NP". That hasn't been proven! Whoever proves (or disproves) that will be the most important computer scientist in the world.

I noticed an expression of the form some number to the 12th power plus some other number to the 12th power equals another number to the 12th power! I'd love to have been able to copy that one down! If anyone else sees it, please do! That should not be possible because Fermat's Last Theorem states that there are no "triples" of the form a^n + b^n = c^n for n greater than 2.

A cute (correct) one I saw is e to the power (pi times i) equals -1. I know that one because I've encountered it so much lately in my image processing class!


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Christopher Seo
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 530
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-06-2001 05:02 AM      Profile for Christopher Seo   Email Christopher Seo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I probably saw this film more than 50 times while running it at the local IMAX, and I have found that such overexposure (no pun intended!) really brings out the critic in me.

Actually, unlike probably any film I've watched in the past year, the first time I saw any part of this movie was actually in the auditorium, and all the way through, so it was fresh then. I think only two of the segments were worthwhile in bringing to IMAX: "Liberation" and "Joe Fly and Sancho: Mostly Sports". These two really showed off the potential of computer animation rendered for IMAX resolution, in 3D no less. The metallic and planetary surfaces in "Liberation" were stunning, the combination of song and imagery captivating. "Mostly Sports" had astonishingly realistic backgrounds, and the characters were animated quite well, with a realistic rubbery texture.

I felt the other segments fell short of IMAX quality and/or lacked interesting storylines. The only original animation in the whole piece, Phig and the bugs, were the most annoying, geared-to-children sequences. The "Simpsons" segment was hysterically funny of course, but no funnier than when it originally appeared on TV.


**********SIMPSONS HEX CODE SPOILER ALERT**********
I figured that the string of hexadecimal was ASCII, so over a period of several shows I copied it down. I don't know where the original note is but I decoded it to "Frink rule". I know the nerdy professor guy refers to a cube as a "Frinkahedron"... was it based on a real mathematician named Frink?

As far as the other stuff, unfortunately we are no longer running "Cyberworld" except possibly for school shows. Evans, if I run it again I'll try to copy down the 12th power equation. BTW, what *does* "P=NP" mean?


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Mark Lensenmayer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1576
From: Upper Arlington, OH
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 04-06-2001 08:37 AM      Profile for Mark Lensenmayer   Email Mark Lensenmayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Apparently, Frink is the scientist that is explaining the 2-D and 3-D cubes in that sequence. (See this reference http://eeggs.com/items/17723.html)

That's all the details I can find on that. Seems like a very odd reference, but it IS the Simpsons.

Mark Lensenmayer

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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-06-2001 10:53 AM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Christopher,

Good question. I was afraid someone might ask "What does P=NP mean?"

Well, where do I start? I need to try to explain it in terms that everyone here can understand but at the same time be precise enough so that if more
fellow computer science and mathematics people are lurking, they won't send
fireballs my way.

First, you need to know what is meant by the run-time order of an algorithm.

Let's say you have a single large wide shelf which contains from left to
right, 1000 manuals for all kinds of projection equipment. Let's say they're
in no particular order. You need to see if there is a Ballantyne Pro-35
manual in the collection. Since the items are unordered, you must, in
some manner (probably by starting at one end and working toward the other)
look through the collection one by one. On the average, you'll have to
look through half the collection, and in worst case, will have to look through
the entire collection. If there are n manuals, the number of manuals you
must look through to find a particualr one is proportional to n, so we say
this search algorithm is O(n) (usually read "Order n"). Note that if the
manuals are sorted alphabetically, the order would be reduced to O(log n),
which would allow finding a particular manual by checking no more than 10
of the manuals, which is a huge improvement, but that's beside the point.
The important point about an O(n) algorithm is that the time it takes to
perform the algorithm grows proportionally to n. That is, if it takes 10
minutes to search a row of 1000 manuals on the average, then it will take
30 minutes on the average to search a row of 3000.

Sorting, if done using a naive algorithm, is O(n squared). (I don't think I
can do superscripts in here). Such an algorithm may be "Take the
alphabetically first manual and swap it with the one currently at the
beginning. Take the alphabetically first manual from books 2-1000 and
swap it with the book currently in position 2. Repeat until the set is
sorted." The number of times this loop is done is proportional to n, and
the finding of the alphabetically first book each time is porportional to n,
so we have an order n squared algorithm. This is not the best way to sort, but
that's beside the point. The point is if it takes 10 minutes to sort 1000
books using this particular O(n^2) algorithm, then it will take 40 minutes to sort 2000 books and 90 minutes to
sort 3000 books. Doubling the size of the problem multiplies the run time
by 4, not 2.

Likewise, there are O(n cubed) and O(n^4) and O(n^5) algorithms, and so on
(searching 3, 4, and 5 dimensional data structures would be examples). Now,
mathematical expressions that are sums of powers of finite powers of n (which
can be multiplied by constants) are called polynomials. An example of a
polynomial is

6 * x^7 + 5 * x^3 - 8 * x^2 - 9 * x + 135
(sorry I can't do superscripts)

Now, if the run time of an algorithm is proportional to a polynomial
expression in n, then the algorithm is said to be a polynomial-time algorithm.
So, sorting the shelf of manuals and searching them for a particular one, are
polynomial-time algorithms, as is performing a linear search of a
1987564-dimensional array that is 1374234 units in each direction. That
would be an O(x^1987564) algorithm, which has polynomial run-time.

P is the set of problems that can be solved in polynomial time on a
deterministic computer.

OK. Now you know what a polynomial-time algorithm is and what
the set P is. So, what is not a
polynomial run-time algorithm? What about this: You have n wires coming
out of a box and those n wires need to be hooked to n connectors on another
device, but you have no idea which wires go with which connectors. If the
wires are connected improperly, the device does nothing. If connected
properly, it works. How many combinations must be tried? If n is 1, then
there is only one possibility. Hook it up and you're done. If n is 2, then
there are 2 possibilities. (Not bad). If n is 3, then there are 6 ways to
hook up the wires. (3 ways to hook up the first, leaving 2 for the second,
and 1 for the last). If n is 4, then the first wire can go in 4 places, the
second can go 3, and so. Do you see a pattern here? For n wires, the number
of ways they can be hooked up is n times n-1 times n-2, and so on down to 1.
There is a mathematical notation for this. It is written n! and is pronounced
"n factorial". The number of ways to hook up n wires to n connectors is n!
which is non-polynomial. To give you an idea of the growth rate of this
beast, here are the factorials of the first few intergers: 1, 2, 6, 24, 120,
720, 5040, 40320, 362880, 3628800, 39916800, 479001600, 6227020800, ... (Those
are the first 13, which are as far as my 10-digit calculator will go). Imagine
if you could try a particular combination of 10 wires in only a second. It
would take up to 42 days to find the right one. With 11 wires, that would be
a year and a half. With 12 wires, that would be 15 years, and with 13,
it would be 197 years. You get the idea. With these types of algorithms,
it doesn't matter how fast the computer is, because increasing the size of
the problem by just 1 increases the run time exponentially.


Another similar problem that has a run-time that isn't quite as bad, but
still horrible is "You have n switches, each can be on or off. The device
will only work if the switches are in the correct positions. Set the
switches properly" This is order 2^n. With 1 switch, there are 2
possibilities, on or off. With 2 switches, there are 2 possibilities: the
first switch can be on or off and the second switch can be on or off. Adding
another switch doubles the previous number of possibilities that must be
tried. The sequence goes 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, etc.
This is exponential growth. It doesn't take too many switches before finding
the correct switch combination takes centuries, even if many combinations
can be tested every second.

We need a mythical mechanism to help us out here. Let's introduce
nondeterminism. In the case of the wiring problem or the switch problem,
let's say we can guess the correct combination. If this idea of guessing
bothers you, let me explain it another way.

Let's say you could make a phone call to God and he could tell you the
correct combination. Now, God gives you a wiring combination or switch
combination. You need to verify that it works. In either case, all you have
to do it try it and see if the device starts working. This verification
stage is important (not because we don't trust God, but because it's
important to the theory here ). So in this case, by using God, we have
a polynomial-time algorithm becuase God gives us the answer in constant time
and we can verify it in linear time (by hooking up the n wires or setting
the n switches).

Look at it another way. Let's say the number of film-tech members is large
enough so that we can have a room full of them. In fact, we have so many
that we have one for each possible wiring combination or switch setting.
Give each film-tech member a bell. I'm running this operation and I give all
of the combinations out, one to each film-tech member. I say "go" and in one
time unit, one of the film-tech members will have a combination that works
and will ring his bell. Let's say John Pytlak rings his bell. I say,
"John, what combination do you have?" I have gotten an answer in constant
time but I must verify it. As with the answer from God, I verify it in the
same manner, in linear time. With this approach, I have a polynomial-time
algorithm since I have constant time answer plus linear time verifiability.
Point: if you have an O(n!) problem and have n! machines, or if you have an
O(2^n) problem and have 2^n machines, you're a good as God.

Now since this is the case, why not just say I can guess the correct
combination to start with, since I can get it from God or from my room full
of n! or 2^n film-techers in constant time. It's the ability to perform the verification of that answer in polynomial time that is important!

The set NP is the set of problems that can be solved in polynomial time on a
nondeterministic computer as I have described in the "God" and "room
full of film-techers" and "guessing" approaches.

It is clear that P is a subset of NP since if a problem can be solved in
polynomial time on a deterministic machine, then it can be solved in
polynomial time on a nondeterministic machine. The ability of a
nondeterministic algorithm to check an exponential number of combinations
in polynomial time leads us to believe that NP includes problems that are
not in P.

THIS HAS NEVER BEEN PROVED! IF SOMEONE PROVES IT, THEY'LL BE THE MOST
IMPORTANT COMPUTER SCIENTIST ALIVE!

P=NP would mean that deterministic polynomial-time algorithms exist for
all nondeterministic polynomial-time problems.

P<=NP is the widespread belief.

You may ask, what would be a problem that is not even in NP?
Here are a couple: Generate all the permutations of the numbers 1 through n".
Sure, God could give me a list of them but verifying would be O(n!) since
the length of the output itself would be O(n!). This is not in P nor NP. Another example is "Generate a list of all of the n-digit numbers." That would be O(10^n) since the output alone is O(10^n).

Here is a problem that is so horrible that there is NO ALGORITHM to solve it:
Given a computer program that produces a yes or no answer based on its logic
and internal state, and given a starting state for the program, will the
program halt in a finite amount of time with an answer?

This is a fascinating area, and it seems that not much progress has been
made since the 1970s. The "standard" book on this, and the theory of
NP-completeness is:

Computers and Intractability: A Guide to the Theory of
NP-Completeness
: Garey, Michael R and Johnson, David S.,
W. H. Freeman and Company, 1979

------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site


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Christopher Seo
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 530
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-06-2001 02:15 PM      Profile for Christopher Seo   Email Christopher Seo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Evans,

Whew! Thanks for taking the time to explain that. Yes, it's interesting... however, building a giant "non-deterministic" computer sounds as impractical as running a deterministic one for billions of years. Has anyone tried to do this (the former proposition, I mean)?

Yes, I seem to remember that "Halting Theorem", but I never really understood it and paid more attention to computer programming than computer science. Maybe it's time to revisit the theory... after all, if it's parodied on the Simpsons, it *must* be worth studying!

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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-06-2001 02:41 PM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Yes, it's interesting... however, building a giant "non-deterministic" computer sounds as impractical as running a deterministic one for billions of years. Has anyone tried to do this (the former proposition, I mean)?

Well, the beautiful thing is that the practicality of building a nondeterministic computer is beside the point. The real question is does doing so allow you to solve any problems in polynomial-time than you could not solve in polynomial time with a deterministic machine. That's the beautiful thing about theory. The elements being analyzed don't have to be practical to build and they don't have to exist in the real world, or even be possible to build in the real world. That doesn't mean such entities aren't useful! Look at imaginary (complex) numbers. They're extremely useful for real-world problems even though they don't seem to exist in the real world. (I have 6+5i bags of popcorn). However, I'll bet a lot of people participating here that do image processing use Fourier (and other) transforms, which make use of complex numbers to give the frequency components of signals.


------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site


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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3653
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-06-2001 09:22 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
There is an analysis of the parent episode, "Treehouse of Horror IV", located on the web, here:
http://www.snpp.com/episodes/3F04.html

It includes commentary, including the equations in the Homer^3 segment.

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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-08-2001 04:41 PM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I fired up Mathematica 4.0 and found that the

1782^12 + 1841^12 = 1922^12

expression is NOT correct!

1782^12 + 1841^12 is 2541210258614589176288669958142428526657

while

1922^12 is 2541210259314801410819278649643651567616

They differ starting in the 10th position from the left. That's not cool. If the expression were true, it would be a counterexample which would disprove Fermat's Last Theorem. But it isn't!

Evans


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