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Topic: Playing an Atmos Trailer on a non Atmos setup

Jay Glaus
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 123
From: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Registered: Dec 2010

posted 11-17-2019 08:15 PM

This is probably a really stupid question, but on the Frozen 2 projectionist paper they list a trailer for Soul in atmos. Can I play this on a non atmos set up? I learned the hard way that accidentally placing a 3D trailer in a 2D playlist really screwed with my on screen image, so I'm just curious if this would screw with my sound or would my processors just pick up the 8 channels it normally does and disregard the rest? I would think so but I also would not have thought a single 3D trailer would have screwed with my whole show.

I'm running a GDC SX2000 AR on a Barco 32b with a Dolby CP750.

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Peter Castle
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 220
From: Wollongong University, NSW ,Australia
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 11-17-2019 11:02 PM

You are correct. The base 5.1 signal is used. Have played several of these including "Blinded By The Light".

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-18-2019 12:29 AM

Yeah, the trailer should play all right for the equipment you have.

Just don't play a trailer if it says, "Presented in Dolby Atmos," or something.

That would be false advertising and, if you did that, I would have to tell you that you suck.

(That was humor, BTW.) [Wink]

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 11-18-2019 02:11 AM

The DCP still includes either a mandatory 5.1 or 7.1 LPCM soundtrack, the Atmos track is an extra asset in the KDM and will be ignored by all setups that aren't equipped with Atmos.

It's something different than playing a 3D trailer without properly engaging your 3D setup, whatever kind of setup it may be.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-18-2019 09:53 AM

There is zero justification for theaters not equipped with Atmos to be playing anything related to Atmos. Like Randy said, a non-Atmos theater playing a Dolby Atmos trailer would be engaging in false advertising.

Of course there is another issue regarding movie sound mixes that are Atmos in name only (they sound literally no different than a 5.1 or 7.1 track). And there is yet another issue of theaters that are technically equipped with Atmos, they have a CP-850 in the booth rack, but they lack the number/quality of amps and speakers to do the format any justice. Nevertheless, such theaters can still stick "Atmos" in their web site ads.

This situation reminds me of the early days of digital sound on 35mm, specifically the first few DTS releases which attached The Digital Experience snipe on every release print of Jurassic Park, Heart & Souls, Hard Target and a few other movies. It was very common for theaters not equipped with DTS to play that trailer simply because no one in the booth bothered to remove it. They even had instances of movie CD-ROMs getting mixed up the first couple releases before DTS released a fix including the movie title in the time code and CD-ROM data.

Anyway, the error of DTS trailers playing in non-DTS theaters was really annoying yet somewhat understandable. It took some extra effort to remove the attached trailer from the film print and them (maybe) splice it back into the print after the run. With everything being d-cinema now there really is no worthwhile excuse for dropping something like an Atmos trailer into a show playlist if the theater isn't equipped to play Atmos. Might as well throw in some THX trailers and other stuff for good measure!

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Jay Glaus
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 123
From: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Registered: Dec 2010

posted 11-18-2019 12:52 PM

Thanks for everyone replying.

I guess the only way to know if it says it is presented in Atmos is to screen the trailer. I’m assuming it will not say that though because every theater isn’t equipped for atmos and the projectionist note says nothing about only playing the trailer if you’re equipped, it just says to play it on your 2d playlist, so I would think they have to assume it’s going to play in many non atmos theaters.

Maybe in 10 years car radios will be advanced enough to where we can have atmos in a drive-in. That is, if the darn daytime running lights don’t kill us first.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 11-18-2019 01:09 PM

quote: Bobby Henderson
There is zero justification for theaters not equipped with Atmos to be playing anything related to Atmos. Like Randy said, a non-Atmos theater playing a Dolby Atmos trailer would be engaging in false advertising.

The topic title Jay put in is rather confusing, but this isn't about a Dolby Atmos "snipe", but a common trailer that includes an Atmos soundtrack.

Playing an Atmos "snipe" or "trailer" in front of a feature presentation thus implying the theater is equipped with Atmos while it is not, is indeed false advertising.

quote: Jay Glaus
I guess the only way to know if it says it is presented in Atmos is to screen the trailer.

Usually it's not referring to Atmos with exception to the very end, where it states stuff like "See it in PLF, IMAX, Dolby Atmos and Magic Unicorn Vision", which doesn't imply that whatever you just saw and/or heard is in that format.

quote: Jay Glaus
Maybe in 10 years car radios will be advanced enough to where we can have atmos in a drive-in. That is, if the darn daytime running lights don’t kill us first.

There are already phones that are "Atmos enabled", whatever that may say...

The biggest problem with getting anything digital into your car is latency and compatibility. Many car audio systems already support 5.1 playback, but only from a limited number of sources.

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006

posted 11-18-2019 01:20 PM

The trailer most likely has a tagline that says:
"Presented in Dolby Atmos In Select Locations "

This was done all the time on trailers & posters for the original Dolby Stereo
& Dolby Digital features. It might be in really fine print, but that still protects
both you ( & Dolby) against anybody wanting to waste their time complaining
about false advertising. (Sorry, but I believe that ALL advertising, by its' nature,
is to some extent false- - or at least truth-stretching)

ACTUAL EXAMPLES (From Dolby's
Official "Approved Logo List")

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-18-2019 01:39 PM

quote: Jim Cassedy
Sorry, but I believe that ALL advertising, by its' nature,
is to some extent false- - or at least truth-stretching

Yep! Advertising = Bullshit.

I have no problem with saying, "'Remedy X' relieves the symptoms of cold and flu" because everybody knows that not every cold medicine can cure every symptom, every time.

Saying, "Cascade gets your dishes virtually spotless," is pushing it a bit but advertisers sometimes have to use "weasel words" to make a point without going into minute detail. They can't spend time going over things like "depending on the water quality in your area" or "depending on soil types."

But, when you say things like, "Four out of five dentists surveyed recommend Trident," or, "Certs with Retsin," that's toeing the line.

Those things are easy to spot and I think most people get it and they see through the bullshit pretty quickly.

The thing that bugs me is manipulation like, "Brita removes lead and toxic substances." That might be true IF your water has lead in it. Most people don't have lead in their water or, if they do, it's in small amounts that aren't very harmful.

When, they start saying things like, "Do it to protect your children!" is when I get really pissed off!

The "In select theaters" disclaimer is middle of the road, as far as I am concerned. It's about on the level of "virtually spotless."

I know that studios and advertisers can't always predict what theaters have Atmos/DTS/SDDS or what have you.

I know that people sometimes forget to take those trailers off. I have forgotten things like that, myself. It's mostly normal for people to forget.

But, if you know that you don't have Atmos and you know that a trailer advertises it, you shouldn't use it.

Knowingly advertising something that you know isn't true is wrong!

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-18-2019 02:15 PM

quote: Marcel Birgelen
The topic title Jay put in is rather confusing, but this isn't about a Dolby Atmos "snipe", but a common trailer that includes an Atmos soundtrack.

Yeah, giving it a second look it appears I misunderstood the question. But, yeah, hopefully the Frozen trailer isn't something that specifically promotes Atmos. I would be surprised if that was the case if it did. Dolby Cinema and IMAX are the only "formats" that seem to get any kind of movie tie-in promotions these days.

quote: Jay Glaus
Maybe in 10 years car radios will be advanced enough to where we can have atmos in a drive-in. That is, if the darn daytime running lights don’t kill us first.

It has been theoretically possible to equip car stereos with 5.1 surround playback capability and allow drive-in theaters or other kinds of OTA radio broadcasts to deliver 5.1 to such systems. But we haven't seen anything "basic" as that happen. "Home theater" seems to be going the direction of the sound bar. And it's rare to encounter a commercial theater with a really kick ass sound system.

quote: Randy Stankey
I know that studios and advertisers can't always predict what theaters have Atmos/DTS/SDDS or what have you.

Dolby was making something of a valiant effort to keep track of theaters equipped with Atmos, Dolby Surround 7.1 and Dolby Cinema on an interactive world map published in its web site. They took down that map page several months ago. Now all they have is a text-based list of Dolby Cinema theaters. AMC took down its lists of theaters with Dolby Cinema and IMAX on its web site. But they still pages listing Prime and BigD locations!

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