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Topic: NATO sound volume study results
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Carsten Kurz
Film God
Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009
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posted 06-28-2018 06:19 AM
We have much better ways to measure and control mastering levels to spec nowadays. Digital FullScale and LEQ(m) are sharper knives than pre-existing methods. However, digital systems allow for higher overall levels (e.g. full range signals in surrounds). I played BladeRunner2049 a good bit louder (6.5 vs. 5.5 on our AP20) than our usual feature level, simply because it was so much fun. I announced this before the feature started, and offered to be at the exit for any complaints. I am not nuts, but I am strictly against setting 'comfort levels'. Recently I sat in an arthouse movie with my father who complained about the loudness of some initial score elements. I told him to shut up and watch the movie ;-)
Our preshow and trailers always play at 4.5.
Cant' say there is a real problem, we certainly have fewer complaints now than we had in 35mm days. Probably because now we always adjust between trailers and feature per SPL cue. Before, it was left to staff with the auditorium fader (no automatic reset), and that was no solid solution.
While one can certainly question our 4.5/5.5 standard procedure, I watch most movies we show, and in most cases, it fits. Only once or twice a year we get a DCP with levels that fail completely, either because levels are too low, or too hot.
If that happens unnoticed during the first showing, we usually get a complaint to staff or by email afterward - but only if people felt it was too loud. We never had a complaint about a showing being too soft, which is compliant with all studies being done on the topic. As long as people understand important dialogue, they don't consider it too soft, even if it is.
All that said - we nearly exclusively play dubbed movies, and very often the sound balance of these is far from the original movie. Sometimes for good, sometimes for bad.
- Carsten
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 06-28-2018 08:53 AM
One casualty of running the fader lower than reference are the surrounds. Presuming one calibrated the room right, the surrounds, which rarely are the cause of complaints because they are too loud will be brought down right with the rest when the fader is lowered to 5.5 (about -5.0dB, if you're one of "those" people), you brought the surrounds down by 5dB too and then I get complaints about them being too soft. In theatres were the fader can comfortably live closer to 7.0 (0.0dB), the surrounds sound much fuller.
I don't think it is the volume level that people are complaining about it is the "pain" level, which are not one and the same though one can lead to the other. However, what people DO know is if you turn the volume down, the "pain" will go with it. For the purposes of this discussion, pain referring to not just a physical pain but as a perceived assault on their eardrums.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 07-04-2018 01:05 PM
I'm rarely impressed with movie theater sound these days.
It's not for a lack of technology. Really cinema sound should be better than ever considering the kind of audio material being provided: usually 24-bit 48kHz uncompressed Linear PCM audio in 5.1 or 7.1 channel layouts. The more elaborate sound formats (Atmos, DTS:X) use no lossy data compression; it's all lossless compressed or a combination of lossless and uncompressed data. All of this is technically better than the data lossy digital sound formats from the 1990's. And it should be at least equal if not better than the magnetic audio formats from the 1970's and '80's. Nevertheless too many movie theaters have sound quality that falls in the range between "decent" and "meh."
Obviously it's the human beings at various stages of the process who are messing up the situation.
I suspect various types of dynamics compression are being applied to elements in the movie's sound mix, if not applied globally to the entire thing. Much of the music industry has been afflicted by the disease of dynamics compression over-use for over 20 years. I suspect the philosophy has been creeping into the movie industry over the past 10-15 years. The sound is being tailored more to the limits of tiny speakers in TV sets, sound bars and mobile devices. That comes at a cost of movie sound having less of the startling dynamics many of us enjoyed when digital sound was first becoming a thing in movie theaters during the early 1990's. Now every element in the mix is loud or not.
I think a lot of commercial movie theaters have sound systems with limited capabilities (cheaper, less powerful speakers and amplifiers, fewer sub-bass enclosures, etc). I think the greater cubic air volumes of taller, stadium seated rooms require a different approach. To me it looks like the speaker configurations are really no different than that of a standard sloped room of decades past. The tiny surround array speakers are just going up the walls diagonally now.
We don't have anything like THX or something similar guiding commercial theaters to confirm to certain quality standards. I think they're installing what's deemed good enough to get the job done. I'm not sure what to think of Cinemark re-purposing the THX brand onto its XD screens. I'm not getting the vibe it's very legit at all.
quote: Aaron Garman
A major chain who will remain nameless is notorious for running everything extremely quiet except their premium large format houses. I have not heard what I would call good sound in one of their auditoriums in a very very long time.
I strongly suspect the AMC locations in my region do this. But I also think other theater chains use the tactic as well. Pay extra to see the movie on an IMAX-branded screen or Dolby Cinema house and you'll hear some surround activity and bombast. Watch the show in a standard-priced house and the audio will have character hardly any better than TV set speakers back home. Decent surround sound is being transformed into a premium item. Maybe the bean counters want the sound run lower in the standard-priced houses because it might translate into less wear and tear on the sound systems.
It also takes a caring theater staff to notice and fix problems with the sound systems. That has always been an issue that set good and bad theaters apart from each other. Even if the theater has good staff and management I can't help but think their hands are tied in some way.
We can't leave out the customers who insist on the sound being turned down to ordinary volume levels. I think that factor has affected the IMAX-branded screen at our local AMC theater. When Carmike first opened the Patriot 13 the IMAX-branded house had sound levels that were fairly hot. It's definitely a few decibels lower now.
A couple days ago a co-worker brought up Jurassic Park because of the new movie and the original recently marking 25 years since it was released. I haven't seen the latest sequel; I still like the original the most. One reason is the memory of seeing it for the first time on the GCC Northpark #1 THX screen in Dallas. The audio was lossy compressed DTS, but the theater's sound system was so well-tuned and had such powerful dynamics I couldn't help but be blown away by it -right from the rib-rattling drum beats of the JP opening title card. It takes some beastly power for a sound system in a 1000+ seat room to pound the air in your chest. For all the raw power music sounded excellent in that room too. Some of the IMAX-branded theaters can deliver loud audio and strong sub-bass. But in terms of tone and overall quality those sound systems are harsh compared what was in the GCC Northpark 1-2.
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