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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » You Were Never Really Here 7.1 files only (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: You Were Never Really Here 7.1 files only
Andy Frodsham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 238
From: Stoke on Trent, Staffs, UK
Registered: Nov 2006


 - posted 04-18-2018 03:22 AM      Profile for Andy Frodsham   Email Andy Frodsham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Very unusually, we have only received a disk with 7.1 files for this film. Unfortunately, we are only equipped for 5.1 in our theatre.

I assume that screening this version of the film is likely to cause a problem? Anyone come across this before?

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

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From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
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 - posted 04-18-2018 06:18 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you get a 7.1 KDM for this movie, you can play it. You won't hear the back surround channels of the movie, instead, the side surround channels will play on your surround speakers. I guess there are worse things that can happen to a presentation. Did you contact the distributor about this?

- Carsten

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Andy Frodsham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 238
From: Stoke on Trent, Staffs, UK
Registered: Nov 2006


 - posted 04-18-2018 06:41 AM      Profile for Andy Frodsham   Email Andy Frodsham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, Carsten, contacted the distributors and waiting to hear back!

Can't really understand why they would send out a disk with no 5.1 files on!

Thanks for your response.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

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From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
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 - posted 04-18-2018 08:36 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you were able to ingest the full 7.1 feature, that means the 7.1 version exists as a self contained OV - which is quite unusual, typically, and for good reasons, the 7.1 is a VF to a 5.1 OV.

- Carsten

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Marcel Birgelen
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From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 04-18-2018 03:14 PM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's an Amazon Studios distribution, they probably don't know their 7.1 mix won't automatically "downmix" on your average DCI gear. [Wink]

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

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From: Annapolis, MD
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 - posted 04-18-2018 04:38 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Or that DCI requirements are to ALWAYS have a 5.1 version (that applies to you morons that issue 2.0 DCPs...do the decode on YOUR end).

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Andy Frodsham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 238
From: Stoke on Trent, Staffs, UK
Registered: Nov 2006


 - posted 04-18-2018 09:15 PM      Profile for Andy Frodsham   Email Andy Frodsham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Éclair, the UK distributor of the film replied:

"Hi Andy

Just got your email about the 5.1 for You Were Never Really Here
There's only 7.1 available but will revert automatically to 5.1

Let me know if there are any issues"

Strange attitude eh?

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

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From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
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 - posted 04-19-2018 12:59 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Not only a strange attitude, but a blatant lie.

quote: DCI specs
The presentation is required to provide, at a minimum, a 5.1 audio format, (Left, Center, Right, Low Frequency Effects, Left Surround and Right Surround). An audio format of 7.1 can also be provided.
(Emphasis mine)

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

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From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
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 - posted 04-19-2018 05:51 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
He is absolutely correct - a 'minimum' of 6 channels, 7.1 is 8 channels, so, condition met. ;-)

- Carsten

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Harold Hallikainen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Denver, CO, USA
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 04-19-2018 01:21 PM      Profile for Harold Hallikainen   Author's Homepage   Email Harold Hallikainen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting! What percentage of auditoriums are 5.1? I'm used to configuring sound processors to run 5.1 content in a 7.1 room, but not the other way around. A JSD-60 can be configured to mix rear and side surrounds into a 5.1 surround channel. But, often 5.1 auditoriums use AES/EBU channel 8 through the JSD-60 for VI audio. If you put rear surrounds into AES/EBU 7 and 8, you'd have to add a D/A for VI. I wonder what the content difference is between side and rear surrounds. Could you just play it ignoring the rear surrounds?

Harold

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

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From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
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 - posted 04-19-2018 01:38 PM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
He is absolutely correct - a 'minimum' of 6 channels, 7.1 is 8 channels, so, condition met. ;-)
Yep, let's quote the full specs to avoid all ambiguity. [Wink]

quote: Harold Hallikainen
I wonder what the content difference is between side and rear surrounds. Could you just play it ignoring the rear surrounds?

Consumer products that are correctly configured usually downmix the extra two surround channels, so the sound itself doesn't get lost. What obviously does get lost is a bit of the spatial information. You expect the studio to account for it and often the 5.1 mix is nothing but a downmixed 7.1 mix.

If you play a 7.1 mix on your average 5.1 DCI setup, you will effectively lose two channels worth of audio. Now, those channels tend to be the least used of the bunch, but it doesn't mean that nothing is there.

There are still plenty of auditoriums out there that don't support 7.1 surround. It's usually just in smaller venues or in smaller rooms of a multiplex, but even the big house in a multiplex is not by definition a guarantee for at least 7.1 sound.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

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From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
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 - posted 04-19-2018 02:10 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Harold Hallikainen
Could you just play it ignoring the rear surrounds?

Yes, of course, as I said, there are worse things that can happen than that. The audience will certainly not know what they're missing. Occasionally, someone puts explicit BACK surround signals into the rear channels that may mean something special (the odd squeaky door). But even then they are usually just short gimmicks. No one puts important dialog lines into back surrounds only. At a time, I was thinking wether CPs should have a downmix function for 7.1 into 5.1. But I guess it would be used so rarely... We registerd both our systems to be 7.1 (even though one isn't), so we receive 5.1 and 7.1 KDMs for all 7.1 features.

- Carsten

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Marco Giustini
Film God

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From: Reading, UK
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 - posted 04-19-2018 05:29 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Carsten Kurz
No one puts important dialog lines into back surrounds only
ALL......YOU!

[Big Grin]

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

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From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
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 - posted 04-20-2018 12:54 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, Gravity (2013) did put dialog into the back surround channels.

Also, what good are those two back channels if you can't ever really use them? [Razz]

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3787
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 04-20-2018 06:30 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sure, I am not sure though wether there a dialog lines in the back surrounds exclusively, there may always be 'some' of it in the side surrounds as well.

But you are right, in the case of Gravity, not just some dialog lines could vanish, the spinning atmospheric sounds, music, etc. in these parts would simply vanish when they travel through BsR and BsL if it would be played through a 5.1 system.

Unfortunately, I think there isn't a 7.1 bluray of gravity, or is there? The BD I have lists only the french track in 7.1. Now what is that?

There seems to be a Diamond Luxe Edition, that one seems to have english in 7.1

Fortunately, we are not talking about Gravity here, but about some amazon flic, and as it stands, they deserve to lose their back surround dialog if they are stupid enough to issue a 7.1 only DCP. ;-)

- Carsten

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