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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Claim of the first 8K Projector at NAB (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Claim of the first 8K Projector at NAB
Frank Angel
Film God

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From: Brooklyn NY USA
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 - posted 04-07-2018 12:32 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
These guys (Digital Projection) are not in the commercial cinema (exhibtion) market are they? So this 8K projector is not DCI compliant, right? And if not, is there a market for an 8K projector in the non-theatrical sector where there is no 8K content available?

Digital Projection's INSIGHT 8K Projector

quote:
Digital Projection presents another breakthrough in display technology with a product producing large-format 8K imagery that you must see to believe.

Digital Projection International, A Delta Associate company, invites you to experience the remarkable at NAB.

Please join us April 9th thru the 12th in the Las Vegas Convention Center, South Hall, Lower Level, Booth # 12718 and be among the first to see the astonishing resolution produced by our new INSIGHT LASER 8K, with imaging by Astro.

Armed with 33 million pixels and laser phosphor illumination creating 25,000 lumens of accurate and saturated color, the breathtaking power of this remarkable display needs to be seen to be appreciated. The INSIGHT 8K is capable of displaying uncompressed 8K resolution, or up to (4) 4K sources, or up to (16) HD sources!

We will demonstrate not only the INSIGHT 8K but also our budget-oriented 1-chip E-Vision LASER 4K & stunning 3-chip HIGHlite LASER 4K projectors, as well as our ultra-bright Radiance Fine-Pitch LED display!

April 9-12, 2018

NAB Show
Las Vegas Convention Center
3150 Paradise Road, Las Vegas, NV 89109
www.nabshow.com

Digital Projection Presentation Location
LVCC South Hall, Lower Level, Booth # 12718
www.digitalprojection.com"


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Mark Gulbrandsen
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 - posted 04-07-2018 01:23 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, there would be a market for one and Digital Projection is very much in the Audio-Visual field, having sold their Cinema Line to NEC some years back during the early Series 1 days. So has TI been secretly making 8K DMD chips? The chip specs on the brochure are pretty vague ("3 x 1.38" DarkChip 3 DMD , +/- 12° tilt angle"). Only 3 chips? So that means T.I. must be secretly producing 8K chips, or D.P. is hiding something like they are really using multiple sets of chips, dual prisms, etc to achieve the number of projected pixels they claim. Or the projector simply scales 8K UHD down to 4K... The projector is also Laser Phosphor illumnated. So they are probably working in collaberation with NEC on that since NEC is the only one using that system so far. Someone will have to go see it in person in order to find out whats going on here. Also, the lenses would have to go way way beyond the current 4K lensing.

Mark

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Stephan Shelley
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 - posted 04-07-2018 01:57 PM      Profile for Stephan Shelley   Email Stephan Shelley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Barco has laser phosphor projectors on the market. All Bs, Cs, and S, are available with that light source.

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Carsten Kurz
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 - posted 04-07-2018 03:42 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Do we actually know which imager technology they use? Are we sure these are 'real' 8k and not just some eshift magic? I remember a TI presentation where they were talking about high contrast DLP, and also mentioned research into 8k. But I don't think it is ready for market yet.

- Carsten

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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 - posted 04-07-2018 03:55 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Carsten,

Yes, it says in my post what they are using, copied directly off the D.P. specs page....

Mark

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Carsten Kurz
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 - posted 04-07-2018 04:47 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
T.I. has a 0.66" 4k dlp chip, but from what I know, it is marketed for UHD, but is not actually doing a native 4k resolution. But in general, this technology seems to allow to pack 8k on a 1.38" chip.

From what we know from DCI systems, I am wondering how they manage color registration and how much 8k is actually possible through these zoom lenses.

I don't think it makes sense for T.I. or any of the three dlp OEMs to force 8k into the DCI market.

- Carsten

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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From: Lawton, OK, USA
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 - posted 04-07-2018 06:32 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Didn't the projector imaging chip companies (TI, Sony, etc) have all sorts of issues just with the jump from 2K to 4K? I've seen plenty of complaints on this forum about a lack of contrast and color fidelity with the 4K systems. Have those problems been solved?

An 8K DLP chip would make all those "pixels" even more microscopic, which might hurt contrast and color fidelity even worse. What are the projector manufacturers going to do to make this idea work? I imagine they have to be feeling some pressure to do something, now that companies like Samsung and Daktronics are showing off UHD resolution LED jumbotron screens as possible movie theater screen solutions.

quote: Frank Angel
And if not, is there a market for an 8K projector in the non-theatrical sector where there is no 8K content available?
There might be more of a market for it once 8K TV displays and computer monitors are commerically released to the mainstream general public. But there's a big IF with that situation.

As it stands, the movie industry is doing a very shitty job at supporting true 4K movie production. That's bad for sales of 3.8K UDTV sets and UHD Blu-ray players. Physical media formats (like Blu-ray & UHD Blu-ray) are the best outlet for emerging higher resolution audio-video playback standards. But physical media formats seem to be mortally threatened from multiple directions. The brick and mortar retail video rental store has been rapidly dying off. Video rental/sales stores have been vanishing along with many hundreds of book stores and music stores. The news that Oppo is going to quit the video player business just adds to an already grim situation.

Residential Internet speeds have been improving. Still, how many Americans have Internet connections truly fast enough to stream anything in real 4K resolution? I'm guessing one needs a download speed of at least 75Mb/s for a 4K HEVC stream of acceptably good quality. One probably needs at least a 200Mb/s sustained download speed for anything with a hint of real 8K quality.

It's looking like the computing industry will have to go through at least another generation or two of improvements before movie studios finally leave behind the old, tired 2K standard and do everything in at least 4K resolution.

Unless a movie project has a director, producer or other "decider" who insists on spending extra for a real 8K production work flow then the 8K thing just isn't going to happen. Perhaps if we have more 65mm/70mm vanity projects then 8K would have a chance for support. Unfortunately we have 4K DI bottlenecks taking place on some of these projects lately; few people are raising a fuss about that.

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Jarod Reddig
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 - posted 04-07-2018 07:08 PM      Profile for Jarod Reddig   Email Jarod Reddig   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Id imagine NHK with their Super HiVision 8K broadcasting system , will be ordering up a few of these.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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 - posted 04-07-2018 07:35 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson
Didn't the projector imaging chip companies (TI, Sony, etc) have all sorts of issues just with the jump from 2K to 4K?
Yes, there were lots of DMD pixel failures. I swapped out all the 4K light engines in the projectors I installed early on. They never failed again after that initial batch.

Mark

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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 - posted 04-07-2018 08:05 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I remember comments about dead/stuck pixels. But there were also complaints about the 4K chips having inferior black levels compared to the 2K chips. Color wasn't as vibrant either.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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 - posted 04-08-2018 12:36 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, thats true, the resultant available contrast ratio is less than 2K. Any time you have light going in a prism and then passing back by itself the contrast kind of goes to hell in a handbag. Thats why Liemax built theor own light engine. Theirs doesn't work that way.

Mark

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Marcel Birgelen
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 - posted 04-08-2018 03:21 PM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It looks like they were just trying to pull our leg here, like a cheap Chinese knock-off product.

From the specs on the site:
Displays 8K-UHD 7680x4320, 4096 x 2160 native

So, at best it uses a "new" form of "magical e-shift" technology to "virtually improve the resolution".

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Carsten Kurz
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 - posted 04-08-2018 04:24 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Very funny. They added that native 4096/2160 spec last night, it wasn't there when I looked it up yesterday...

- Carsten

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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 - posted 04-08-2018 06:25 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
LOL! I knew it... Buncha fakes...

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Marcel Birgelen
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 - posted 04-09-2018 01:31 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Carsten Kurz
Very funny. They added that native 4096/2160 spec last night, it wasn't there when I looked it up yesterday...
It probably took a while before the marketing department got the memo. [Wink]

Although TI is most likely working on some kind of 8K prototype DMD chip, how big would the odds be that some 2nd-rate player would be allowed to be the first to not only show the first public prototype-demo, but actually show off a production-ready device?

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