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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Alchemy hard disk drives models? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Alchemy hard disk drives models?
Juan Jose Garcia Calvo
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Pedrajas de San Esteban, Spain
Registered: May 2003


 - posted 03-12-2018 11:29 AM      Profile for Juan Jose Garcia Calvo   Email Juan Jose Garcia Calvo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello.
Next week we are going to receive a “refurbished” Barco DO2K 10S with integrated Alchemy server.
This one comes without hard drives.
Can somebody tell me what type of hard drives must I buy to install it in their ports?
Any recommended brand and model?
Thanks!

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3590
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 03-12-2018 11:55 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Our ICMP uses HGST CinemaStar C5K1000 1TB drives.

https://www.hgst.com/de/products/hard-drives/cinemastar-c5k1000

They can be bought relatively cheap. There is a 3*2TB option as well, but I don't know the exact drive model used. As the CinemaStar drives are only available up to 1TB, I assume the 3*2TB option uses Seagate enterprise/server grade 2TB models.
Note that there are 2TB CinemaStar drives, but these are 3.5" models.

There are not many of those enterprise/server grade 2.5" form factor drives, so it shouldn't be complicated to find these. They are quite a bit more expensive than the 1TB HGST drives. Barco also wants a heavy surcharge for the 3*2TB option. So far, we are fine with the 3*1TB option. It seems the ICMP is not too picky about specific drive models, so at some point, I will probably try some other drives as well. However, classic notebook drives will usually exhibit exceptionally long retry times on read errors, so, once a drive shows that behaviour, the raid could become very unreliable. I guess it would be wise to either source NAS capable 2.5" drives, or at least some where the number of read-retries can be configured with a manufacturer tool. I don't know if the Barco supplied drives have received special tuning. If you feel unsafe, just get the mentioned 1TB C5K1000 drives

Since your ICMP comes without drives - are you sure that at least the drive carriers are included?

- Carsten

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 11994
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-12-2018 11:57 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The specific make/model that are approved and known to work are in the current manual(s). Honestly, I forget if it is Communicator, or the projector installation or projector service or commander manual that lists them.

BTW...if this is to replace an existing projector/system, you can move the drives over.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 6842
From: Loma Linda, CA
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 - posted 03-12-2018 12:30 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Carsten Kurz
There are not many of those enterprise/server grade 2.5" form factor drives...
..and that many of the models that do exist are 15mm height, not the more commonly found 7mm and 9.5mm. This is not a problem for the Alchemy, because its drive cartridges can take 15mm models. But the Dolby IMS 1/2/3000 (and its NEC-badged version) can only take up to 9.5mm, so if you ever want to recycle a set of Alchemy drives into a Dolby IMS, you need to check that they will fit.

The 2TB drives that Barco supplies for the Alchemy are 15mm height. Don't know about the 1TB ones.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3590
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 03-12-2018 12:39 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The two Barco recommended drives are listed in the english language ICMP installation manual, the 1TB drive is the above mentioned HGST/WD HCC541010A9E630 CinemaStar drive, the 2TB is the Seagate ST2000NX0253. These 2TB drives cost three times to four times as much as the 1TB drive.

Using other drives, according to Barco, voids the warranty.

- Carsten

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2039
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 03-12-2018 12:42 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The 2TB drive I've seen in the ICMP is the Seagate ST2000NX0253

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Juan Jose Garcia Calvo
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Pedrajas de San Esteban, Spain
Registered: May 2003


 - posted 03-13-2018 12:42 PM      Profile for Juan Jose Garcia Calvo   Email Juan Jose Garcia Calvo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks you for your answers.

Carsten said:
"Since your ICMP comes without drives - are you sure that at least the drive carriers are included?"

Good question!! What about if not? Can be brought any compatible commercial drive carriers?

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2039
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 03-13-2018 06:11 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Excellent question. The 3.5" drive bays are pretty common, and there are probably hundreds of incompatible ones. I haven't seen a 2.5" drive bay except on cinema server equipment. And Doremi's is different from Barco's which is different from NEC's.
So... good luck getting these from anywhere but Barco, particularly if you don't have a sample so you can search for a match...

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3590
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 03-13-2018 08:11 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
These carriers are not built by Barco, but I don't know a second source for them. I remember I played with the idea to buy a second set of carriers when we bought our Barco. They are definitely on Barcos spare part list, so, if they are not included, you need to contact Barco about them.

- Carsten

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Juan Jose Garcia Calvo
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Pedrajas de San Esteban, Spain
Registered: May 2003


 - posted 03-14-2018 05:57 AM      Profile for Juan Jose Garcia Calvo   Email Juan Jose Garcia Calvo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, as you suspect, the trays are not included 😕.

Any of you can send me any ref number write down in these trays or a detailed picture of them. I will try to find out there in the internet because I’m sure barco will sell it at gold prices...
In order to search it... what’s the technical name for these “trays”?
Drive carriers? Bay?

Thanks!!

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2039
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 03-14-2018 07:36 AM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Normally you need to buy the whole assembly, the drive caddy and the socket thing that goes in the computer... removable drive bay?
I can look at a drive caddy later today. Probably all ICMPs use the same one but that can't be guaranteed. At least get Barco's price to try and beat it.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 6842
From: Loma Linda, CA
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 - posted 03-14-2018 08:01 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I call them cartridges, but that's probably not official.

I have seen that model of cartridge in other servers and SAS RAID boxes, but I'm afraid that I couldn't give you a generic make or model number, sorry. I'm sure that Barco buys them off the shelf, but couldn't tell you where from.

This is a totally different model of cartridge from the one used in Dolby IMSes.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 11994
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-14-2018 08:04 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I didn't see Barco listing a separate part for the drive carrier by itself. Just the complete set of drives with carriers. Barco isn't into supplying small parts. They like larger assemblies.

Hopefully, the carriers have enough identifying markings to allow one to find at least the manufacturer and hopefully, it isn't just an OEM manufacturer.

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2039
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 03-14-2018 01:10 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, there is nothing to identify them. I did not take a server out to see if the inside part has a brand.
pix, in case they help:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AiLqiegTyUpahChQlMt9mATIQoxk
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AiLqiegTyUpahCr9TtQLVjfWeIw9
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AiLqiegTyUpahCnzdrMUKJEYPtFJ

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2039
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 03-14-2018 04:05 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The bays are apparently an OEM product from Advantech but they don't show anything remotely like them on their website. I can't even find a similar bay from any supplier anywhere (but I didn't spend hours searching), there are some 2.5" ones that fit in a 3.5" drive slot... and maybe the guts could be mounted like on an ICMP but the slides don't look the same.
Barco doesn't show the slides/caddies as a separate part - they might sell the complete drive bay, but it isn't a normal spare part - so it will be special order from Belgium, Belgium probably then ordering from China... taking weeks at best to get to you.
Technically you could just push a drive into the bay and fiddle it until it plugs in... but it's going to be flopping around with nothing to hold it in.
I haven't priced a drive set from Barco but the 2TB Seagate drives are ~$400.00 each from Newegg.

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