Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | my password | register | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Distributors, dcp and kdm's

   
Author Topic: Distributors, dcp and kdm's
Armand Daiguillon
Film Handler

Posts: 3
From: Plantation FL USA
Registered: Jan 2018


 - posted 01-10-2018 02:27 AM      Profile for Armand Daiguillon   Email Armand Daiguillon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi all,

I was hoping someone here could offer me some guidance.
Does anybody know if any distributors are "less stringent" on their dci compliance requirements for exhibitors ?
I know 1st run is out of the question - but what else might be available ?
The reason I ask is that we will be using a computer software based system, this hardware can provide proper dci server certificates to generate a proper kdm to play the dcp's. So its secure there - but the projectors would be in small screening rooms, so there are no compliant projectors.
Because of that we would be declined by most for not being on the "approved equipment list". I know some indie distributors dont care (even will release on bluray) - but I need as much info as possible.

I need to know what product (if any) I could get and from whom.

I've emailed some distributors...and film bookers. But no one responds.

Any help would be super gratefully appreciated [Smile]

 |  IP: Logged

Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 2217
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 01-10-2018 03:23 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Your mileage may vary, but I'm pretty sure you'll have a hard time getting a KDM from any of the big studios if your projector isn't on the Approved Equipment List, even if it's for one of their boutique titles. It's often easier to get a BluRay and screen that one as an alternative. Nowadays, with a higher end, good calibrated non-DCI projector and sources like 4K BluRays, the results can be close to indistinguishable from a proper DCP presentation. If you have a contract in place with the studios, screening a BluRay is usually perfectly legal, as long as you pay the licensing fees due.

Independent studios and distributors are usually not a big problem, they're usually happy to have you in their network. For film festivals we've used a mix of proper DCI projectors and high-end non-DCI setups with NeoDCP. The biggest gripe about NeoDCP is the lack of external automation cues, but it works pretty well otherwise.

Instead of trying to deal with the big studios directly, you should try to get a booker. Most studios don't really like to deal with those "small fish" directly. A booker manages multiple smaller and medium sized cinemas and can therefore increase the volume.

 |  IP: Logged

Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3266
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 01-10-2018 07:27 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's a local issue, you have to talk to each and every distributor. In Europe, there are quite a few that do not encrypt at all, so don't care. We do have some non-DCI playout systems in use in Germany, so, yes, some distributors issue KDMs, most do not. I don't think anyone in the US can issue a simple statement towards who does and who doesn't.

Keep in mind, there are distributors with an opinion, and KDM management services with operating constraints. If a distributor is using a certain service/software that prevents KDM creation for non-DCI compliant systems, you may be out of luck, even if that distributor would be open, he will hardly change his KDM provider/system just for you.

- Carsten

 |  IP: Logged

Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 6619
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 01-10-2018 10:08 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Agreed with Carsten - mom-and-pop shop arthouse distributors who make their DCPs and KDMs on a Mac Pro in their bedroom will probably give you KDMs without any problem, but Deluxe/Technicolor ... ? Forget it.

 |  IP: Logged

Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 7859
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-10-2018 10:37 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Unless this is for a very temporary installation, I would suggest re-considering any business model that relies on nonstandard equipment and special treatment from distributors. They may say today that you will be given content, but they are entirely within their rights to say the opposite tomorrow, leaving the exhibitor with no recourse.

I would caution against Blu-Ray due to the unreliability factor. That is a format that works best in one's living room, and not in cinemas.

Barco, Christie, and NEC all make DCI-compliant equipment for screening rooms and smaller venues. I would recommend checking out what is available before deciding that DCI equipment is not an option.

 |  IP: Logged

Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 2217
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 01-10-2018 11:00 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Scott Norwood
I would caution against Blu-Ray due to the unreliability factor. That is a format that works best in one's living room, and not in cinemas.
With a simple ripping tool and DCP-o-Matic it's not a big deal to convert a BluRay into a proper DCP, it's something I've had to do countless of times, due to the simple lack of availability of a proper DCP. So, there are no reliability issues there, the reliability issues are primarily with the distributors. [Wink]

 |  IP: Logged

Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 465
From: Bradenton, FL, USA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 01-10-2018 11:39 AM      Profile for Alan Gouger   Author's Homepage   Email Alan Gouger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here in the states you can secure DCPs from Swank and Criterion. They both represent most of the major and mini major studios. You can secure a license for non dcp media as well.

https://www.swank.com/
http://www.criterionpicusa.com/

 |  IP: Logged

Armand Daiguillon
Film Handler

Posts: 3
From: Plantation FL USA
Registered: Jan 2018


 - posted 01-10-2018 01:12 PM      Profile for Armand Daiguillon   Email Armand Daiguillon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you for the responses.
Regarding swank/criterion - they only license for things already on home video, so thats not really what I need.
I was hoping someone knew some of the specific indie/whoever distributors who are less picky. I know anything from the majors is a no go.
One booker (the only one to actually get back to me, have had bad experiences where bookers just dont return phone calls/emails) they suggested I look into Eclairplay which looks interesting but I don't know anybody who uses it and am finding info on it hard to come by.

 |  IP: Logged

Frank Cox
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1742
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011


 - posted 01-10-2018 01:23 PM      Profile for Frank Cox   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Cox   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What is it that you're actually trying to do?

It sounds like you're not operating a public movie theatre (arthouse or whatever), but some kind of private screening rooms in homes or ???

You might get better suggestions from the folks here if you clarify your purpose or end use.

For individual home use (or family viewing), if that's what you're doing, most distributors will probably tell you to purchase their video at Walmart. Public exhibition is a different animal, but it's not clear that's what you're doing.

 |  IP: Logged

Armand Daiguillon
Film Handler

Posts: 3
From: Plantation FL USA
Registered: Jan 2018


 - posted 01-10-2018 02:16 PM      Profile for Armand Daiguillon   Email Armand Daiguillon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is for public viewings - without going into an overly long list of specifics, its basically a lot of 2 person viewing booths using 4k standard monitors for viewing. PC's play the dcp (can handle enrypted dcp) and pipe it to whichever booths bought tickets for that showtime.

 |  IP: Logged

Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3266
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 01-10-2018 06:59 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The market for non-fully-DCI compliant systems is very small - that is reflected by the tiny known scope of distributors supporting such models. I can only repeat - you need to make a list of all remotely relevant distributors and call/email every one of them to get a decent answer, I am afraid.
I have some insight into the german sub-DCI public presentation 'scene', but for other countries...

- Carsten

 |  IP: Logged

Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 2217
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 01-11-2018 09:25 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We've had a small screening room which just seated 4 people in the past. We had a mix of both a DCI compliant projector and two high-end non-DCI projectors in there. With the proper sizing and lenses it works even for small rooms. The non-DCI setup actually offered better image quality than the DCI setup, but it was no option for us to not be able to play encrypted DCPs.

Besides the odd-ball independent release, you will not get anything that's not already released on rental and streaming on non-DCI certified equipment. It's simply NOT going to happen. The only exceptions I've seen are high-profile events, were the equipment at hand simply can't be made DCI compliant within the given time-frame.

Although the many leaks that have occurred over the years might make you think otherwise, Hollywood's livelihood depends upon protecting their high-profile releases from prematurely leaking.

While a standard 4K TFT or even OLED screen will still be much cheaper than any DCI projector setup, you should really look at going the "proper" route. There are refurbished units available at reasonable prices, those units will be able to play any DCI content you can get your hands on. If your business model doesn't work with those kind of investments, it's probably better not even to try it anyway. [Wink]

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)  
Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2018 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.