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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Can You Identify This DCP Nomenclature?

   
Author Topic: Can You Identify This DCP Nomenclature?
Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1510
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted 09-26-2017 12:07 PM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I ingested this flick at a screening room last night.

OKJA_FTR-Forced_S_KO-en_OV_51_4K_20170607...yada, yada

It will be playing later this week, although I'm not doing that
show since I'll be busy working a local film fest in another part
of town. Anybody have a clue what "FTR-Forced" is?
[Confused] Key isn't good till right before the screening, and
I'd like to tell the guy filling in for me what to expect.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

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From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 09-26-2017 12:40 PM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I guess it refers to the forced subtitles for the non-English language part.

Okja's dialogue is part in English, Korean and Spanish.

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3629
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-26-2017 02:59 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
The subs are burned in. They are using BluRay nomenclature for no good reason. There is also a 7.1 version.

Credit offset is 1:51:29 with crawl at 1:52:36 if you need those numbers.

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Justin Hamaker
Film God

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From: Lakeport, CA USA
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 - posted 09-26-2017 07:07 PM      Profile for Justin Hamaker   Author's Homepage   Email Justin Hamaker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
FTR is Feature. I'm assuming forced goes with S to be Forced Sccope - not sure what that means.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

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From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
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 - posted 09-26-2017 07:25 PM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Like Adam already mentioned, it's more a BluRay term. Forced subtitles are usually burned in subtitles or subtitles you cannot switch off*. In case of a DCP, those will be burned-in English subtitles for the Korean and Spanish dialogue.

It's not the official DCP naming convention, but the naming convention currently simply doesn't account for such cases.

* If they aren't actually burned in but simply "forced", you can actually get rid off them on a BluRay once you RIP it.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

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From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
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 - posted 09-26-2017 08:54 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I guess the 'Forced' in this case goes with the 'en' - the lower case subtitle language means burnt-in subtitles.

- Carsten

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Leo Enticknap
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 - posted 09-26-2017 10:54 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If Carsten is correct, it's a bit strange that they've used the correct subtitle tag to describe burned-in subtitles, but an incorrect genre tag (FTR-forced).

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: San Francisco, CA
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 - posted 09-27-2017 11:46 AM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Leo Enticknap
it's a bit strange that they've used the correct subtitle tag
to describe burned-in subtitles, but an incorrect genre tag

That's what had me confused at first too. When putting the
drive back in the box though, I saw that the very top of the
label on the drive it clearly says "Forced English Subtitles",
which I apparently missed when I was ingesting it.

But thanks for all the feedback, everyone.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

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From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
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 - posted 09-28-2017 02:06 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Leo Enticknap
If Carsten is correct, it's a bit strange that they've used the correct subtitle tag to describe burned-in subtitles, but an incorrect genre tag (FTR-forced).
Lower case language codes indicate burned-in subtitles, but it's not what generally is being considered to be "forced". Although "Forced" subtitles are often implemented by being burned in.

Forced subtitles are those subtitles for the segments where a character speaks in a different language than the "main language" of the movie or the "main language" of the audience.

The Wikipedia article regarding Subtitles has a nice, non-authoritative listing of several subtitle categories. The current DCP naming convention doesn't really account for the difference between the "Forced" and "Narrative" subtitle categories.

I guess they put the "Forced" tag in there at the location of the Genre tag, simply because the different versions can be pretty confusing.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

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From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
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 - posted 09-29-2017 02:43 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Leo Enticknap
If Carsten is correct, it's a bit strange that they've used the correct subtitle tag to describe burned-in subtitles, but an incorrect genre tag (FTR-forced).
Maybe not so strange - the lowercase en could have been generated automatically by the software they used for mastering the DCP - but they may actually don't know about the lowercase implication, so they added 'Forced' to make it clear.

- Carsten

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