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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » 'Standalone' IMS Rack (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: 'Standalone' IMS Rack
Frank Anderson IV
Film Handler

Posts: 2
From: Romulus, MI USA
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted 09-08-2017 02:44 PM      Profile for Frank Anderson IV   Email Frank Anderson IV   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was curious to know if anyone may know if there is a way to power an IMS outside of the projector?

Perhaps some rack or other piece of equipment may be available that would allow me to do this?

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Dave Macaulay
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1875
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 09-08-2017 03:41 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
maybe Dolby or someone else has such a thing, but - put simply - No.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 6468
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 09-08-2017 04:15 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I do have a dim recollection of seeing a post on F-T mentioning a standalone box into which an IMB or IMS can be slotted, with dual SDI outputs at the back - the purpose of it was to enable an IMB or an IMS to be used with a Series 1 projector. I can't remember any more than that - sorry.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3157
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 09-09-2017 06:03 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
http://digicine.com/mediaplayer/

But's not a generic solution.

- Carsten

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Film God

Posts: 15793
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-09-2017 10:00 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Their IMB runs under Windows 10. Thats creepy if you ask me and a big step backwards. I can just see it happening now where the alert pops up in the middle of a show. "Please Wait... Installing Updates". I kinda figured people had learned Windows OS's don't work for cinema servers...

Mark

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 11521
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-09-2017 11:16 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
GDCs new (probably hasn't been released yet) SX1000 series will have its own outboard cage for use in series 1 via SDI but will also slide into a series 2 as a full IMB.

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Stephan Shelley
Master Film Handler

Posts: 489
From: castro valley, CA, usa
Registered: Nov 2014


 - posted 09-09-2017 02:54 PM      Profile for Stephan Shelley   Email Stephan Shelley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does that mean that GDC is going to discontinue the model that has the internal media block?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Film God

Posts: 15793
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-09-2017 03:18 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the direction of the industry is such that all external servers will be eliminated. If Dolby would get their act together and build a half way decent IMS it would probably happen much faster. GDC is already releasing their third integrated server and the IMS is still a questionably reliable piece after all this time...

Mark

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 11521
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-10-2017 10:46 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All I can get out of them is that there isn't a set discontinuation date for the SX2001 or SX2000AR.

I'd have to think that they would before too long. I'm sure it is a matter of numbers. How many are sold and how many they still have left.

I can't claim to have had any significant issues on the IMS2000 and it is tons faster than the IMS1000.

I still prefer the separate server model of system. From the GDC line, I only use the SX2001 and SX2000AR. I dislike the SX3000 due to its VERY slow UI and absurd shutdown requirements. I still wish they had made their OS drives mirrored.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 6468
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 09-10-2017 11:10 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The only issue I (and many of my customers) have with the IMS1000/2000/3000 is the horrible web GUI, based on the fundamentally clunky and unintuitive Doremi software architecture (e.g. Cinelister and Ingest Manager split into two separate applications), and made even worse by superimposing a pull-down tab structure on top of it. I guess this is less of an issue for people who only use these things through a TMS, and therefore, don't have to grapple with the front end directly (ironically, Dolby's TMS software package is one of the nicest I've seen), though. Maybe that is such a high proportion of the customer base for these things that Dolby don't feel it worth their while to develop a decent from end for the few customers who'd be using it directly.

If the Show Manager GUI from the DSS line could be ported over to the IMS line, though, I would have no significant problem with it.

As for the standalone IMS rack/box concept, I'd be surprised if there is any significant market for it. Is it likely that the Series 1 projectors currently in use will outlast the servers they are being used with in significant numbers? Only if that happens and it is no longer possible to buy standalone servers in any shape or form - even good used ones on Ebay - would anyone be likely to contemplate buying an IMS to Series 1 conversion device, IMHO.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Film God

Posts: 15793
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-10-2017 01:31 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
LOL! And people that think the GDC UI is clunky need to try the IMS. Why Dolby didn't just re-write their own very nice UI is just beyond me...
As for SX-2001 I think they could supply them just about indefinitely. There is already a generation 2 motherboard and cooling fan for them and there are so many of those media blocks in the field that they will be producing them for some time to come. It's certainly not what I'd sell to a customer today unless it HAD to match existing equipment.Which in GDC's case is irrelevant.


Mark

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 2060
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 09-10-2017 07:23 PM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Do we really see any future in third-party IMSes, now since every DCI projector vendor is rolling their own and is more or less bundling it for "free" with the projector?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Film God

Posts: 15793
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-10-2017 09:13 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think you will see people stick with the same companies they have always done business with. And so far NEC has refrained from forcing any IMS on anyone... The one they sell is strictly optional.

Mark

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 2060
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 09-11-2017 04:25 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Personally, I'd like if the projector manufacturers focused primarily on building projectors and would leave the server business to others.

Yes, people tend to stick around with the stuff that has proven to work for them, I can't blame them either. But in case of Barco for example, it's hard to tell customers to throw the perfectly fine Alchemy IMS away and put in a Doremi/Dolby one, which in my opinion has a far inferior UX compared to the Alchemy. You could go for a GDC IMS, which has, in my opinion, about an equal UX, but it's hard to convince anybody to shell out the extra money if it isn't necessary. Even features that were uber-important before, often leave the table at a whim, once the price becomes clear.

I think Doremi sold themselves to Dolby at exactly the right time. Although they did have some non-DCI related business, their business would most likely have died within a few years.

quote: Leo Enticknap
If the Show Manager GUI from the DSS line could be ported over to the IMS line, though, I would have no significant problem with it.
I'd expected Dolby to start integrating both. The Dolby UX was significantly more polished and streamlined, it's hard to believe they just threw that away.

Maybe it was engineered elsewhere or the people that implemented it left Dolby, but else I don't see a reason why not try to merge both the Dolby and Doremi train into one, superior product.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 11521
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-11-2017 07:13 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Leo, I was speaking to reliability of the server, not the UI. Yes, the Doremi UI is an abomination. it is made worse by the Web version, if for no other reason than the ill-chosen color scheme. Like anything else, the more you use something, the more you become accustomed to it. So, either way, you'll eventually become proficient at knowing where the things you need are located. The Cinelister UI needs not only the "Show Manager" facelift, it needs under-the-hood work to make it reliably do things in the Ethernet world. It is great you can make macros and all but I can't count how many times it doesn't fire a reliable Ethernet command. I have to have most of them fire a command twice to ensure the other device receives it. I'm dumbfounded that the Cinelister UI still won't let you know what show will start when you press play. That is a bug from version 1 that still isn't fixed and they likely don't get it is a major flaw. How unintuitive for one to have to check/select on the "EDIT" page before pressing play to know what will be running when that happens.

How much better would the GDC UI experience be if they had on the SMS page a button that took your straight to "Content?" Likewise, to take you back to SMS? What is with forcing the way-station that is the "Control Panel?" From a technician/service standpoint, release the "Configuration" section while the show is running. Those things that absolutely can't change mid show, can still be greyed out but things like the Automation should be able to be tweaked mid-show. I suspect that most things within Configuration could be worked on mid-show. And enough of the encrypted logs.

As for the SX2001A...I just recently put one in. The projector hangs from a pipe grid in the auditorium but its sound system (and server) are in the room behind. The projector is used for A/V as well as DCP. By using the SX2001A, I have the sound where I want/need it (including the UI). There are no boot up/shutdown procedures to accommodate either. We incorporated an A/V start and DCP start switches into the automation system so the server doesn't even boot up for days where it is just A/V work (it isn't a conventional theatre). It is an NEC projector so we had DVI and SDI ports available on the "Legacy Board" for A/V use. It just made a whole lot of sense on many levels including CRU ingest.

In the US, the projector company's IMB/IMS is not a freebie. Typically, one can use a 3rd party IMB/IMS for the same or lower cost than a projector company supplied unit. Remember too, the Alchemy only comes with a 2-year warranty while the 3rd party companies issue a 3-year warranty so it is actually cheaper to use the 3rd party, when all things are considered. I forget if GDC still charges for its 4K upgrade, it shouldn't because they would be the only one (Barco doesn't if you buy the ICMP with the projector and Dolby dropped it from the IMS2000/3000).

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