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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Upscaling on an ICMP/Alchemy

   
Author Topic: Upscaling on an ICMP/Alchemy
Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3780
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 08-23-2017 05:15 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Not going into the pros and cons of excessive cropping or scaling - I want to show a DCP with a 2.55 aspect ratio in a 2k scope container on a screen with approx 2.12 ar, but filling the full screen. Usually that involves croping the sides of the 2.55 image down to approx 2.12 and then using the lens zoom to fill the screen.

Now, doing that, I notice that the 2.55 image only uses 804 vertical pixels. Cropping the sides, I end up with an image of around 1704 by 804 pixels, wasting imager estate and thus light both above/below as well as right and left (pillar AND letterboxing). Now, I thought I should be able to enlarge/rescale the image from 1704 to 2048 horizontally, coming out around 966 pixels vertically. The Barco Alchemy offers me a combined resize/masking option in Communicator, but it seems I can only downscale, not upscale the image there. Any idea how this could be accomplished?

The task sounds rather weird for DCP content - but I would end up with the same problem if e.g. I wanted to show a 720p source through HDMI or DisplayPort full screen, no?

- Carten

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2136
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 08-23-2017 09:06 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I believe you can connect with the TI ICP program and access its more comprehensive scaling controls? The ICMP contains pretty much a TI ICP.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3780
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 08-24-2017 04:24 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the ICMP contains all the ICP functionality, but doesn't emulate an original TI ICP?

- Carsten

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 2610
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 08-24-2017 05:32 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think the Alchemy really would need to emulate an original TI ICP, since it's just their own stuff interfacing with it. Bypassing the original ICP is probably also the only way to support stuff like 4K@60FPS.

I'd be interested in a solution to up-scale content with the Alchemy though.

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Tom Bert
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 100
From: Belgium
Registered: Apr 2010


 - posted 08-24-2017 08:59 AM      Profile for Tom Bert   Email Tom Bert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In Communicator SW, browse to “Configuration" --> "PCF”
Click “Active area” button.

In the “Active area” window fill in:
Width = 1704
Height = 804
X offset = 172
Y offset = 138

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3780
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 08-24-2017 04:58 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Tom, Ill try. I found a 'visually' working solution using the 'letterbox' function, but I can't control it numerically as in the PCF setup, so I am not sure wether the resulting AR is correct. But 'Ill try cropping with the active area function.

- Carsten

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3780
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 08-25-2017 04:28 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmm, I tried it - and it 'nearly' worked... Unfortunately, and this may qualify as a bug report, there are timed text subtitles in that DCP, and they get garbled whenever I reduce the active image area vertically. The image does what it should, but the subtitles suddenly turn up in the upper quarter of the image area, and look like static noise (in the original color of the subtitles).

So, currently, I am left with masking and losing quite some light. I am using the latest version of the ICMP and 6E software.

- Carsten

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Tom Bert
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 100
From: Belgium
Registered: Apr 2010


 - posted 08-28-2017 07:01 AM      Profile for Tom Bert   Email Tom Bert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does it count as a bug if we know that subtitle rendering would be messed up? :-P

Thanks for flagging: noted

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3780
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 08-28-2017 07:41 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Tom, I guess I did not get the idea of the 'letterbox' function in screen file configuration completely - it may appear that, if disabled, what it does in this case is, scale the vertical container dimensions to full imager height, and crop away the sides, maintaining square pixel AR? That way, I would basically end up with an 1.9AR image, but could still crop it further? Because, the subtitle issue does not come up then. It's just that I have less control about the specific part of the image/AR that I want to use.

I guess I need to make a few test sequences to get this sorted out.

- Carsten

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12211
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-28-2017 10:24 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Historically, (going back to the Mark VII machines, at least), the "Letterbox" checkbox, if ticked meant that the TI board will scale until the image hit the width of the imager and if unticked it would scale until the image hit the height of the imager (cropping the sides).

It used the input resolution as its guide to scaling the image.

Back in the day, I used to use the "letterbox" function by unticking it so that Standard Def signals with a 16x9 letterbox within them (16x9 image within a 4x3 raster) would be scaled in the projector to show as 16x9. This sort of situation is all but gone now as very few standard def sources are in use anymore that would have a letterboxed image inside. Most DVDs will have an anamorphic image that uses the full 4x3 raster to get as much resolution to the 16x9 final output.

Another key to using the projector's scaler is to understand the input dimensions are what tells the scaler how much to scale. As you go with smaller dimensions, the scaler applies more magnification to bring those dimensions to the limits of the imager. This was true of Barco's scalers too. I had a whole table to use for the ACS2048 (or ImagePro) to get most any SD source to scale right and maintain aspect ratio.

I have not used the Alchemy yet (but I have one in the dock now so that is going to change). I presume that Barco has continued the same logic as was used in their own products of the past as well as mimic what TI has done.

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