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Author Topic: Smallest projector
Enrico Maggiola
Film Handler

Posts: 1
From: trieste fvg italy
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted 08-23-2017 09:45 AM      Profile for Enrico Maggiola     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi!

What is the smallest projector on the market compatible with dcp, kdm and so on?

We will need it for a small screen (3.5meters/11.5 feet)

Thank you [thumbsup]

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Film God

Posts: 15869
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-23-2017 11:23 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Smallest, least expensive is the NEC-NC-900 combined with a GDC SX-3000. Do not even consider getting the Doremi (NEC) IMS!!!! Its a hunk of garbage.

Mark

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 6596
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 08-23-2017 11:49 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Barco also makes a competing model, the DP2K-6E. It's a very similar machine. Its advantage over the NEC is that, hour for hour, lamp costs are a bit cheaper, but I believe that it is a bit more expensive to buy initially.

I don't know if the Barco can be used with IMBs or IMSes other than the Alchemy: you could certainly use your existing IMB or IMS with the NEC, if you wanted to, or an NEC Enigma board in it. One gotcha with the NEC 900 is that only one of the option slots is usable (the other was disabled in the software, I'm told because of overheating issues), so you couldn't have an IMB/IMS and another input board in there, which you could with the Barco.

Having serviced both models recently, one strong impression I formed is that the Barco is a lot quieter in operation. That won't be an issue for you if the machine is to be installed in a booth or a rabbit hutch, but if it's to be on a table top in the screening room, this might be a factor to consider.

Both projectors use mercury discharge lamps and only need a single phase power supply. Therefore, you won't have to worry about the safety precautions necessary to handle xenon arc bulbs, install an air extraction system, or do any upgrades to the power supply beyond what you'd expect to find in a typical home or office, with either.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

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From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 08-23-2017 11:54 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At least in europe, the Barco is way cheaper than the NEC 900/1000, both including IMS and lens. If you get the 6E, there is no reason not to buy it with the IMS/Alchemy. Because, essentially, you get the server for free. The 6E and NC900/1000 are quite similar in weight and size, the Barco being a bit shorter, but wider than the NEC. The Barco is also small bit quieter than the NEC. It's not really that important, but the NEC offers a real dowser (at least the 900, don't know for the 1000), while the Barco only offers electronic blanking.

As far as I see, list prices for lamps over here are higher for the Barco than for the NEC, although I don't know the price for the 400W NC1000 lamps.

The Barco is also a lot brighter than the NC900. Again, I don't know how it compares to the NC1000 in that respect.

- Carsten

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

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From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 08-23-2017 11:59 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm guessing that forex conversions account for the price differences we're experiencing. Interesting - shows that what (national or currency zone) market you're in really is a significant factor in buying decisions.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 2207
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 08-23-2017 01:40 PM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You can replace the Alchemy IMS/IMB in the DP2K-6E with any other IMS or IMB, but I guess you didn't buy the DP2K-6E, because you had so much money to throw away.

The lack of a real dowser is a bit of a pity, you simply cannot get the screen dark.

Still, not a real deal breaker for most applications. And yes, at least in Western Europe, the Barco DP2K-6E is cheaper than the NEC NC-900 option, especially since you get the server for "free".

The lamps might be a bit overpriced, since they're just 400W UHP lamps, then again, their price point is comparable to running on Xenon.

quote: Leo Enticknap
I'm guessing that forex conversions account for the price differences we're experiencing. Interesting - shows that what (national or currency zone) market you're in really is a significant factor in buying decisions.
Transport and import taxes might also be a factor, although the import rate into the EU on projection equipment for professional use seems to be stuck at 0% for the time being.

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Greg Routenburg
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 133
From: Toronto, ON, Canada
Registered: May 2003


 - posted 08-23-2017 02:02 PM      Profile for Greg Routenburg   Email Greg Routenburg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The NEC NC-900 has been replaced by the NC-1000 but from the outside they're identical machines. It's part of their new, what I'm calling Series 2.5, line which doesn't have an ICP. They've made a number of improvements over the 900 and from what I've seen, it's a pretty nice little small venue machine. It would be my recommendation as well. Just a note of caution, it doesn't have any Alt Content inputs (DVI or SDI) on the projector itself and is not compatible with HD-SDI/Enigma connectivity. Any Alt Content needs to go through your IMB so if you go this route, make sure the IMB has all the inputs and signal processing that you require for your application.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Film God

Posts: 15869
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-23-2017 02:07 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The NC-1000 also uses the same 450 watt lamps the Sony projector uses.

Mark

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Max Hayman
Film Handler

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From: London, England
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted 08-23-2017 02:11 PM      Profile for Max Hayman   Email Max Hayman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What kind of price range are these projectors?

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Greg Routenburg
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 133
From: Toronto, ON, Canada
Registered: May 2003


 - posted 08-23-2017 02:34 PM      Profile for Greg Routenburg   Email Greg Routenburg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They're actually 400W lamps Mark which makes them that much cheaper to run. The lamps are also now the same for ceiling and desktop mounting.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3243
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 08-23-2017 05:37 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Max Hayman
What kind of price range are these projectors?
There seems to be an unwritten rule on not posting 'real' prices in pro groups where dealers and integrators are present. But to give you at least an idea, let me say 25.000€.

- Carsten

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Film God

Posts: 15869
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-23-2017 06:00 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No doubt they'll hold up better than the last attempt did, although now having had all Version 2 lamps in NC-900's for some time I am seeing most meet the 3000 hour warranty. So saying which is cheaper would actually take a bit of calculating. The Lamp kit list price for the NC-900 is comparable in price to a new 2KW film xenon lamp, and many dealers heavily discount them. So, the NC-900 is likely still the cheapest to operate provided the lamps either make it to warranty hours, or they get replaced under warranty if they fail early. I have had customers that didn't buy a single lamp for one for over two years. So their lamp cost over that time was actually zero. Now that NEC has set a two year shelf life on those lamps, stocking more than an extra pair of lamps even in a plex doesn't make sense. I have customers that don't run anywhere near 3000 hours a year.

Mark

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Stephan Shelley
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 525
From: castro valley, CA, usa
Registered: Nov 2014


 - posted 08-23-2017 06:02 PM      Profile for Stephan Shelley   Email Stephan Shelley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you do not need to be fully DCI compliant there are software DCP servers that with work with conference room projectors. They will even work with KDMs. However major studios will not issue KDMs for these systems.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
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 - posted 08-23-2017 07:16 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The lamps for the 1000c cost more to operate than a 2kw xenon (that is just bulb cost against hours not factoring less energy)

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 6596
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 08-23-2017 11:05 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Stephan Shelley
If you do not need to be fully DCI compliant...
...or if you do, but are on a tight budget and are willing to consider used/refurbished Series 1 equipment, you could probably buy a projector and server that would probably work perfectly well for the next 2-3 years for well under half the price of the equivalent new Series 2 system. Like Carsten, I don't feel comfortable posting actual ballpark figures, but do feel comfortable suggesting that the OP explores this option if a new Series 2 machine would cause a budget problem. The gotchas I can think of are:

- Likely no official manufacturer support, at least for your projector. If, say, a card or the light engine goes, you could be down to looking for replacements on Ebay.

- Even with the latest TI software in the projector and the latest software in the server, some of the more advanced features of subtitling and auxiliary content in SMPTE DCPs might not work reliably (possibly more of an issue in Europe than here, where subtitles are used more heavily)

- Restricted support for non-24 frame rates

- As far as I'm aware, even the small screen projectors in the Series 1 offerings (e.g. NEC iS8-2K) use xenon arc bulbs, so you would have to deal with the safety issues involved in handling them.

- Most if not all of the alternative content inputs (DVI) on these machines are not HDCP-compliant, so you'd need a scaler or something that can strip out the HDCP, if you wish to use the projector with, say, a BD player or a cable TV box.

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