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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » NEC NC2000c scaled flat inside scope lens (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: NEC NC2000c scaled flat inside scope lens
Gunnar Asgeirsson
Film Handler

Posts: 61
From: Iceland
Registered: Jul 2006


 - posted 08-16-2017 12:38 PM      Profile for Gunnar Asgeirsson   Email Gunnar Asgeirsson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,
I have always thing the switch between flat and scope are to slow on the NC2000c.

Because i generally screen video advertise on DCP before trailers start.
And the advertise are always flat no matter if the trailers and the movie itself is scope.
What i am gonna do is make a new lens preset that i am going to name for example VirtualFlat.
And i want to then let all scope shows start with the virtual flat cue instead of regular 2D Flat, that means that the lens will take its 6-10 secound to go into the regular scope lens preset but inside the scope i want to have flat images that is downscaled so it fit inside the scope preset. So i can always screen the advertise in scope lens preset but still in flat format. Then the projector wont take 10 secound to switch to regular scope since it is already in scope and the only thing that will changes is the presenting format inside the scope preset.

But i am having a little proble, i am inside the DCC (Digital Cinema Communicator) and i just have to admit that i am not really sure how to create this screen file correctly.
I know how to create screen files for correct lens preset but now i need to create downscaled flat that fit inside scope lens preset.
I dont just want to do something and hope it is correctly made [Smile]

Anyone who would like to share their experience?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12084
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-16-2017 02:25 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Two things:

1) EXPERIMENT ON AN UNUSED TITLE/PRESET

(I cannot emphasize that enough).

2) What you want to work with are two things. Use the PCF file for your normal FLAT format (e.g. DCDM_XYZ_185) because you want the projector to know it is a Flat source material. Then you will go to the settings for the screen file and adjust the "Screen Presentation" to resize the image. You only need to work with the upper-left and Lower-Left. You shouldn't need to adjust the "X" position, just the "Y" positions. My guess is that you would want to take 111 away from each (it will feel counter-intuitive to what you are doing). You also will need to make sure "Letterbox" is ticked.

When it looks the way you want it, SAVE IT UNDER A UNIQUE NAME.

If I were doing it, I would use the DLP program and then import the file via DCC into the Title but that brings up a whole new can of worms/passwords to use it. If find it more intuitive than the DCC for both masking and screen presentation settings (and loads faster).

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Yuri Mamaev
Film Handler

Posts: 4
From: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Registered: Dec 2011


 - posted 08-16-2017 07:12 PM      Profile for Yuri Mamaev   Email Yuri Mamaev   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Correcting a little bit: Upper Left and Lower Right corners for presentation. On NEC please make sure, that "Image Scaler" is active, or you'll probably see no change.

And giving more info:
1. Image Scaler ON
2. Cinema path ON (don't remember you can change those on NEC in DCCS2, but on Christie it has to be enabled)
3. Presentation -> two opposite corners corners to scale down
4. Crop will have much bigger values, as you'll be cropping unseen image too
5. Scaling quality is quiet low, but it's advertisement, who cares [Wink]

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12084
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-17-2017 07:07 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think the DCC lets you adjust the "Y" dimension on the lower-right corner. But yes, normally (Barco, Christie, ICP app), it is the opposite corners.

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Ioannis Syrogiannis
Film Handler

Posts: 86
From: Athens, Hellas (Greece)
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted 08-17-2017 09:12 AM      Profile for Ioannis Syrogiannis   Email Ioannis Syrogiannis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As a semi-relevant comment, I want to add that those 10 seconds in between different lens settings (and even more, on some Series 1 projectors) seem like ages for the operators, but it usually is not for the patrons.

I double that things are more straight forward when you use the DLP tools and software, once you figure its interface out. (Find where to check for enabling resizing, for instance.)

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16112
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-17-2017 09:39 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Since these are going to look so crappy when you are done why not just buy a cheap LCD projector just to run your ads from. You are completely wasting the capabilities of the NC-2000. Also, then you can go directly to your show format with no wait at all on the lens.

Mark

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 2525
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 08-18-2017 04:50 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So, you're willing to give up resolution, contrast and brightness to save for a 10 second lens change?

Sorry, you're doing it wrong.

Do you really think a single patron will mind to wait 10 seconds for the real beef, after you probably fed him/her with 10 minutes of commercials?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16112
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-18-2017 11:23 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Exactly! But also consider that lens zoom time is determined by... A. How far the lens needs to move, and B. The actual make and part number of the lens. Some lenses take longer to go through the range than others do.

Mark

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12084
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-18-2017 11:45 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
NEC is the slowest of the bunch on the lens movement and the least accurate.

An argument against re-zooming the lens for ads is that with each lens movement, you create a degree of drift that adds up over time.

For ads, I'd have no problem with the scaling thing. They rarely are of any great resolution to begin with.

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Pietro Clarici
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 136
From: Foligno (PG) Italy
Registered: Sep 2008


 - posted 08-18-2017 03:27 PM      Profile for Pietro Clarici   Author's Homepage   Email Pietro Clarici   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have daily first-hand experience on NC2500, NC1600, NC1200 and NC3240. All of them are unbearably slow on format change (more like 40/50 seconds, certainly not 10) and more importantly, as Steve correctly pointed out, all of them WILL drift a lot. Especially the 1.2" machines.

In order to show ads (and JUST ads, no cinema content of any kind) I've done exactly what Gunnar suggested and created a "Flat on Scope" format. Couldn't care less about resolution or brightness, it's basically a glorified Powerpoint slideshow anyway.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16112
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-18-2017 04:42 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just hope running the ads and burning a 2KW + lamp pays off. I know many of my customers that do their own ads would get complaints from their advertisers if they looked crappy.

Mark

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12395
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-18-2017 09:46 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here, about 7% of the lamp's burn time is devoted to running the ads. If a lamp costs $1100.00, then that would be about $77.00. That's not bad and it makes the ads look good.

We run one show nightly except 2 on Fri/Sat, so I realize that figure would be higher for anyplace that runs 3 or 4 shows a day. It might not be worth the cost in lamp time.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12084
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-19-2017 10:05 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Exactly! It almost never pays to run a separate ad projector if you are footing the bill for the lamps and projector. The incremental cost of burning the xenon lamp is going to be cheaper than the cost of a suitable A/V projector and those projectors can be expensive if you get one with the long lenses needed to put the projector back in the booth.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17662
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-19-2017 10:29 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I should note that if you are signed on with a major advertiser then they should be providing funds to offset the cost of the lamp and wear/tear on your projector since they no longer need to supply one. Same for if the ads are running off of your DCP player instead of a dedicated external video player.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 2525
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 08-21-2017 04:13 PM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It might be "just commercials", but you're getting paid to show them. You're not getting paid to make them look like crap.

What do you tell your advertisers? Hey, we don't give a damn?

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