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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » HDMI input not working on Dolby IMS2000 (NEC NC900C)

   
Author Topic: HDMI input not working on Dolby IMS2000 (NEC NC900C)
Petar Mitrevski
Film Handler

Posts: 6
From: Middlebury, VT, USA
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted 11-28-2016 05:34 PM      Profile for Petar Mitrevski   Author's Homepage   Email Petar Mitrevski   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi fine folks,

Sorry for the long post. I wanted to get details out there.

We have an NEC NC900C that has gotten three different replacements of the IMS (one IMS1000, another IMS1000, six months ago we got an IMS2000). The ICP on the NEC was replaced as well when the IMS2000 went in. The IMS units and the ICP were shipped by NEC, installed by Lonny Jennings.

The issue with the IMS is always that the HDMI input stops working periodically (seems like every few months). DCP content always works.

The video path looks like this: Sources > Crestron DM matrix switcher DM output > shielded CAT6 > Crestron DM receiver > 6ft HDMI cable to the HDMI input on the IMS. The typical sources behind the Crestron switcher include Oppo blu-ray players, a Sony blu-ray player, a Mac Mini and a Dell laptop. The typical resolution is 1080/60p.

When the HDMI on the IMS stops working, none of the sources work. We’ve tried connecting directly (bypassing the Crestron stuff) a variety of computers and Blu-ray players with a variety of resolutions (720/24p and 60p, 1080/24p and 60p, 2K/24p). When it doesn’t work, none work.

When the HDMI on the IMS stops working, without changing anything else, I can move the HDMI cable from the IMS to the LG TV or Panasonic projector and they both display the source fine.

With either of the IMS1000s we used to get one of these symptoms: a black screen, “snow” or flashing between snow and the source image. After we got the IMS2000 from NEC, everything was fine for 6 months, until last week - we got just a black screen and tried the troubleshooting steps above.

Sometimes, restarting will fix the issue (and by restarting I mean: shut down the server, put the projector in standby, shut off projector, wait a minute, then start the projector).

We’ve gone through a variety of firmware releases since the projector and original IMS was installed in June 2015. They don’t seem to make a difference. Currently the IMS is on 2.8.2-0 which appears to be the latest.

Three ideas have been floated:

Idea 1: There’s a DDC timing issue and the HDCP handshake fails because of that. Install Luxi Electronics’ CHD-110 to try and fix that. Anyone used this device to resolve a similar issue?

Idea 2: Put automation in place to ensure the system is always shut down properly. We have a Crestron control system on hand. Based on NEC tech support, below is the correct manual shutdown sequence so we’d be looking to automate that.
A. Shutdown IMS.
B. Put projector into standby (wait for cooling to complete).
C. Shut projector off.
We have the RS-232/network command for step B and we can remotely control the UPS to do step C. But:
- Is it safe to have the UPS shut power off after steps A and B have completed?
- Is there a network command for step A (to shut off the IMS)?
- Any thoughts on this idea in general?

Idea 3: Install a DVI card in the projector and use an external server (the NC900C doesn’t seem to have the power for both an IMS and the DVI card). Thoughts on this? What server would you use?

In general, have you had HDMI issues with this combo (NC900C & Dolby/Doremi IMS1000 or 2000)? How have you resolved them?

Apologies again for the long post. I know it’s a lot. But we’re at wit's end and looking for input.

Thank you much!
Petar

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 11749
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 11-29-2016 06:51 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is certainly a puzzler.

First things first, yes I'd use a DVI port on a projector EVERY time over an HDMI port on ANYBODY's server. So yes, if you put in a Legacy board (with an Enigma) then you'd have a more robust system.

Your server choices are dwindling though. Though now discontinued, Dolby will supply, until stock is depleted, the DCP2K4, which is an HDSDI based server. GDC has their SX2001 and I don't have a discontinuation on that one yet.

Onto troubleshooting what you have
Have you tried adjusting the HDMI port on the IMS? The means isn't exactly intuitive but you can set its colorspace and such. I believe it is under Control>Device Controller.

I'd think that if it was something inherent in the system, it would be rampant throughout the industry. The IMS1000 was put into a LOT of S2K systems so that HDMI port is the ONLY means of alternate content for either NEC or Barco S2K projectors (the IMS1000 predates the ICMP).

I've had Crestron HDMI over Cat5 boxes give a blank screen and even a snow screen so I'm curious as to your situation on that one. Power cycling the Crestron box always brings that one back though.

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Petar Mitrevski
Film Handler

Posts: 6
From: Middlebury, VT, USA
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted 11-29-2016 10:13 AM      Profile for Petar Mitrevski   Author's Homepage   Email Petar Mitrevski   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Steve,

Thanks for helping with the puzzle [Smile]

Yep, we've tried power cycling the Crestron receiver and it doesn't help.

We've tried the scaling and color settings under HDMI and they don't help either.

Any thoughts about automating the shutdown sequence below? NEC tech support has found that doing step B first can cause the trust relationship between the IMS and the projector to fail, so if an operator is not following the sequence it could be why we periodically end up in a situation when HDMI doesn't work.

A. Shutdown IMS.
B. Put projector into standby (wait for cooling to complete).
C. Shut projector off.
We have the RS-232/network command for step B and we can remotely control the UPS to do step C. But:
- Is it safe to have the UPS shut power off after steps A and B have completed?
- Is there a network command for step A (to shut off the IMS)?

Thanks again,
Petar

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 11749
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 11-29-2016 12:22 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, there is indeed a way to do it via Ethernet. For details, see this thread where I asked the very same thing (and have verified that it works on all Doremi servers (DCP and IMS).

http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=002752#000000

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Petar Mitrevski
Film Handler

Posts: 6
From: Middlebury, VT, USA
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted 11-29-2016 12:36 PM      Profile for Petar Mitrevski   Author's Homepage   Email Petar Mitrevski   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good thread! Will give that a shot.

Thanks,
Petar

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3277
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 11-29-2016 04:42 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Still very weird. We all know HDMI is delicate in pro-environments, but it shouldn't be so unreliable as you describe it. And the worst thing, it happens so rarely that there is hardly any chance to analyze the issue properly. What did you do to restore the HDMI input? Did it ever start to work again, or did you swap the IMS every time this happened?

Is the signal going away while the projector is displaying an image, or does the issue occur when setting up the input for a showing?

What's the reason for the CAT6 connection?

Into the blue, you could try to connect an HDMI splitter between the Crestron receiver and the IMS HDMI input, and feed the second output to a monitor/TV.

All descriptions of the CHD-110 are a bit mystic to say the least. I would assume it's actually an HDCP stripper.

- Carsten

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Petar Mitrevski
Film Handler

Posts: 6
From: Middlebury, VT, USA
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted 11-30-2016 09:18 AM      Profile for Petar Mitrevski   Author's Homepage   Email Petar Mitrevski   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Carsten,

Thanks for your reply.

Sometimes restarting the projector in the sequence I described above fixes the issue. When it doesn't, NEC has sent in a replacement. Per NEC's instructions, we are removing, checking, cleaning and reseating all the boards. Doing that this Friday. I'll post what we find in case it's useful to others.

We actually did put an HDMI splitter last week and the TV worked just fine, while the projector stayed black. For good measure, we hooked up the splitter to a Panasonic projector we have in addition to the TV and both the Panasonic and the TV worked just fine.

The issue has never happened mid-screening and only occurs infrequently when we turn on the projector. Right now I'm leaning towards guessing that the projector is not getting shutdown in the correct sequence and that's what's triggering the issue, but I can't say for sure. With Steve's help, I think we have all we need to automate the shutdown sequence so when we have the projector working again (hopefully this Friday), I'll test the commands.

Thanks again,
Petar

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Tom Schilling
Film Handler

Posts: 2
From: Lake Balboa, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted 08-24-2017 12:40 PM      Profile for Tom Schilling   Author's Homepage   Email Tom Schilling   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Petar, Did you ever resolve your issues with HDMI sources. I have had similar problems with the NEC projector. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Petar Mitrevski
Film Handler

Posts: 6
From: Middlebury, VT, USA
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted 08-24-2017 02:07 PM      Profile for Petar Mitrevski   Author's Homepage   Email Petar Mitrevski   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Tom,

We didn't really figure it out. If we shutdown the projector and start it up again, it generally gets the HDMI input working reliably.

We had a spare Panasonic projector so we are using that for all HDMI/alternate content and the NEC just does DCP.

Best,
Petar

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Tom Schilling
Film Handler

Posts: 2
From: Lake Balboa, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted 08-30-2017 05:09 PM      Profile for Tom Schilling   Author's Homepage   Email Tom Schilling   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you Petar. If you are willing, I'd be very interested in the Crestron code/module you are using for control of the NEC/IMS2000 combo. Thanks again. Tom

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Petar Mitrevski
Film Handler

Posts: 6
From: Middlebury, VT, USA
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted 09-04-2017 01:40 PM      Profile for Petar Mitrevski   Author's Homepage   Email Petar Mitrevski   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tom,

We gave up on doing the full automation since we rarely had to do the switching between alt. content and DCP. So we just do it manually now.

This post has relevant commands: http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=002752#000000

Good luck,
Petar

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