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Author Topic: subtitle positioning on series 1 barco Philip Wittlief Film Handler Posts: 57 From: Chicago, IL Registered: May 2003 posted 07-15-2016 09:27 AM                        'The Infiltrator' came with reports that some sites had subtitles getting cutoff along with affirmation from the studio saying that if the problem was occurring, it wasn't there fault and it was a projector setup issue. From what I have found on my equipment, the problem is happening on Series 1 projectors with TI 15.1.52 but I have a couple Series 1 still on TI 14.0.48 and they play the subtitles fine. The movie is Scope and when the issue occurs the subtitles are half outside of the 858x2048 window. Does anyone have any more info on this? Barco's suggestion was to set new screen and lens files to shift the image to match the subtitle position.  |  IP: Logged Bajsic Bojan Expert Film Handler Posts: 190 From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu Registered: Aug 2008 posted 07-15-2016 09:33 AM                     post a couple lines from the subtitle xml. otherwise the projector is either not executing the pcf file properly (or executing the wrong (1.85) one), or you are masking off more than the x% of the picture that is indicated as the bottom line of subtitles in the xml. there is a small chance the xml is using an older type of positioning numbering that doremis interpret not as % but as pixel shifts ,like instead of quote: <Text Direction="horizontal" HAlign="center" VAlign="bottom" VPosition="14"> you sometimes get VPosition="14.0" which for some strange reason, doremi interprets as 14px off the bottom edge. also, what server type are you using, or are the subtitles handled by TI/projector?  |  IP: Logged Philip Wittlief Film Handler Posts: 57 From: Chicago, IL Registered: May 2003 posted 07-15-2016 10:52 AM                        I'm using a Dolby DSS200. The subtitling is being handled by the light engine. I noticed they published a new version to our satellite server this morning. Looking at the files, it seems they may have chose to burn in the subtitles instead now. I will check this once I have a screen free. Here is part of the previous version's subtitle file... <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> -<DCSubtitle Version="1.0"> <SubtitleID>cd3541ca-620e-4a11-87f6-d1a35d055ab6</SubtitleID> <MovieTitle>infiltrator_r4_en</MovieTitle> <ReelNumber>4</ReelNumber> <Language>en</Language> <LoadFont URI="infiltrator_en.ttf" Id="Font1"/> -<Font Id="Font1" EffectColor="FF000000" Effect="border" Color="FFFFFFFF" Underlined="no" Script="normal" Weight="normal" Size="42"> -<Subtitle FadeDownTime="20" FadeUpTime="20" TimeOut="00:04:43:090" TimeIn="00:04:41:050" SpotNumber="1"> <Text VPosition="8" HPosition="0" HAlign="center" VAlign="bottom"> That's why I'm marrying Bob. </Text> </Subtitle> -<Subtitle FadeDownTime="20" FadeUpTime="20" TimeOut="00:04:45:180" TimeIn="00:04:44:030" SpotNumber="2"> <Text VPosition="8" HPosition="0" HAlign="center" VAlign="bottom"> I want what you have. </Text> </Subtitle> -<Subtitle FadeDownTime="20" FadeUpTime="20" TimeOut="00:04:47:180" TimeIn="00:04:46:010" SpotNumber="3"> <Text VPosition="8" HPosition="0" HAlign="center" VAlign="bottom"> A normal family. </Text> </Subtitle> -<Subtitle FadeDownTime="20" FadeUpTime="20" TimeOut="00:04:52:200" TimeIn="00:04:48:210" SpotNumber="4"> <Text VPosition="14" HPosition="0" HAlign="center" VAlign="bottom"> You are very fortunate. </Text> <Text VPosition="8" HPosition="0" HAlign="center" VAlign="bottom"> Thank you for your hospitality. </Text> </Subtitle> -<Subtitle FadeDownTime="20" FadeUpTime="20" TimeOut="00:10:50:160" TimeIn="00:10:46:180" SpotNumber="5"> <Text VPosition="14" HPosition="0" HAlign="center" VAlign="bottom"> Don't worry. We'll go inside. </Text> <Text VPosition="8" HPosition="0" HAlign="center" VAlign="bottom"> He's a little sick. </Text> </Subtitle>  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 07-15-2016 03:02 PM                     I don't know much about this so I searched online. VPOSITION is a percentage of the picture, in your case calculated from the bottom because of the VAlign=Bottom parameter. Considering 858 pixels, in your case the text would be rendered 68 pixels from the bottom of the screen. It seems a little low to me but it should be well within the frame. Did you check your picture using a framing chart? How do you know you are now cropping more than 68 pixels?  |  IP: Logged Philip Wittlief Film Handler Posts: 57 From: Chicago, IL Registered: May 2003 posted 07-15-2016 03:16 PM                        The subtitles were getting cutoff half below the image area when cropping was removed. When switching to a 1998x1080 PCF and no cropping you can see the entire text and half of it is below the image frame. When changing the PCF and therefore the active image area, the text remained in the same position. The studio has now issued a new CPL that appears to have burned in text, but I'd still be curious to know the mechanics of what is going wrong.  |  IP: Logged Harold Hallikainen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 906 From: Denver, CO, USA Registered: Aug 2009 posted 07-15-2016 04:50 PM                        These appear to be Cinecanvas subtitles. CineCanvas states that Vposition is the distance from the reference position (top, center, bottom) of the screen and the text baseline. SMPTE 428-7-2010 says "Specifies the distance of the subtitle instance from the side of the picture's frame." It is unclear as to what part of the subtitle instance we are measuring from (text baseline, text bounding box, etc.). There is a draft revision that makes it clear that for timed text (not PNG) subtitles, the distance is from the text baseline to the edge of the image area. PNGs are measured from the edge of the PNG to the reference position. If you have Valign="bottom" and Vposition="0", the basline of the text will be at the bottom of the image area and descenders will go outside the image area. The projector MAY be updated to the draft standard (which agrees with CineCanvas, and these ARE CineCanvas subtitles based on what I see), but the authoring tool may assume that Vposition is measured to the text bounding box instead of baseline. Harold  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-16-2016 04:50 AM                     Generally, when I see subtitle cropping issues it is a either: 1) You really are cropping too much picture 2) The PCF file is not of the right format (Scope/Flat mixed up or more often 2K/4K not right. Since you have a series 1, it probably isn't the 4K thing so I'd look to the PCF. Make sure that it is really correct...for Scope that 2048x858 is the resolution and likewise for Flat 1998x1080. About all Barco lets you do on the PCF file is change the resolution. The other thing to check is to make sure is "Letterbox" is checked. That should ensure it isn't scaling it out. You also, on a Series 1, make sure you are in "Cinema Processing".  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 07-16-2016 03:39 PM                     Hello Harold, The document I found states the below:  |  IP: Logged Harold Hallikainen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 906 From: Denver, CO, USA Registered: Aug 2009 posted 07-16-2016 04:09 PM                        Thanks! That's also what I saw in CineCanvas, but not the current SMPTE document. The draft document makes clear that the vertical reference point for horizontal text is the baseline. I don't know if this is indeed the problem, but if descenders are going out of the image area, that could be the cause. Harold  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 07-16-2016 04:23 PM                     Sorry Harold I misread your post. Anyway 68 pixels should be enough to place the subtitles within the picture area. Philip Your test clearly proves that the engine is somehow placing the subs in the wrong place. Only one question: you disabled the cropping and saw the subtitle cut in half by the bottom of the frame. How do we know the active frame was not - for any reasons - less than 858 pixels? Can you use a framing chart to check?  |  IP: Logged

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