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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Christie CDXL-30 vs. Osram XBO 3000 W/DTP?

   
Author Topic: Christie CDXL-30 vs. Osram XBO 3000 W/DTP?
Rachael Barbash
Film Handler

Posts: 23
From: Columbus, Ohio, US
Registered: Feb 2009


 - posted 11-12-2015 02:05 PM      Profile for Rachael Barbash   Author's Homepage   Email Rachael Barbash   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey all,
historically in our Christie CP2220 we've used the Osram XBO 3000. A few months ago we had a Universal Studios screening of Trainwreck and they flew in one of their main techs to check out our projector the day before the screening. He told us that the Osram couldn't achieve the required brightness and had us switch to the Christie CP2220... which we apparently just had sitting around from when the projector was originally installed in late 2010. (I'm not exactly sure where it was or how this conversation went, I wasn't there that night, unfortunately.)

The powers that be at my theater decided that we should stick with the Christie CP2220, which I agree looked much brighter but we do not own a light meter so I have no proof. Last week we ordered a replacement because the warranty would probably be up in a month or so but I had to do an emergency switch out this morning at around 1200 hours because of some awful flickering. (Half of the lamp was black on the inside.) No idea when our Christie order will be in so I had to replace it with an Osram XBO 3000 W/DTP.

Every time we replace a lamp we go under inventory so we will be ordering another Osram OR Christie very soon. Again. If our original order ever arrives. :/
I'd love if some here could share their opinions of these two lamps or companies and/or experiences with these lamps.

Thanks,
Rachael

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8161
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 11-12-2015 02:47 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You'll rarely find anyone here liking to use Osram bulbs, where the majority of the members here rather go with Ushio due to the better quality of bulb than what Osram can issue out.

When I began with Barco, we were using Osram with the 4000DHP variety, and I was lucky to get 900 hours out of them before the warrantied 1000 hours that are listed for this size of bulb. Issues were, hard strikes, horrible flickering, blackened envelopes, to total bulb failure before reaching warranty hours.

After switching over to the DXL40BAF/L bulbs of Ushio, I can easily go past their 1300hr warranty life with no issues and the envelope remains clear, single bulb strikes, and never had bulb failures with this make.

I also have some Barco units that do use the 3000w bulbs, where the warranty hours on these bulbs are 1700hours and I still can go over the warranty hours with no issues being the Ushio DXL30BAF/L variety.

Now, with the comparison that I have presented between the two makes are prominent with your issue, but other factors must be in play to go along with this..like exhaust and internal fan conditions and the similar-are they up to recommendations, or is their conditions that must be met.

Try an Ushio and see what you think. Besides, Christie and Ushio bulbs comes out of the same factory.

-Monte

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2496
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 11-12-2015 03:21 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Christie 2220 is the projector model, what Christie lamp did you install into it?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 11749
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 11-12-2015 04:19 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Christie/Ushio lamps are going to be brighter and more stable than Osram on any given wattage...they are just a way better engineered and manufactured lamp.

With the CP2220, there are two lamp models of 3KW that you can use...the CDXL-30...which is good for about 15,000 lumens and the CDXL-30SD...which is good for about 17000-17500 lumens but at a cost for the lamp and much lower warranted hours.

There is now the CDXL-30SP...which has the same lumen level as the CDXL-30 at the start...but holds its light output much better over the life of the lamp...which is also notably longer.

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Rachael Barbash
Film Handler

Posts: 23
From: Columbus, Ohio, US
Registered: Feb 2009


 - posted 11-12-2015 05:22 PM      Profile for Rachael Barbash   Author's Homepage   Email Rachael Barbash   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is very interesting. We have tended to use Osram for everything but after reading these responses I am not sure why and I will bring up some things said.

Apart from the lamp I mentioned above we have had problems with the XBO 3000 W/HSXL, with a warranty of 2200 we can usually only get around 1600 hours out of it before it has noticeable flickering. Though the XBO 2000 W/HS that we've used in our smaller theaters in the NEC NC1200c haven't given us any problems.

I understand that our equipment isn't top of the line and we can't go around replacing all of our projectors but I do wonder why we landed on the lamp we use... (Inner thoughts...)

Does anyone know of any webpages that compare these different companies?

Edit: Marco, sorry, I was copy and pasting above some wrong information. The projector is the Christie CP2220 and the lamp I just replaced was the Christie CDXL-30

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3277
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 11-12-2015 08:38 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A webpage that compares both companies is the film-tech forum you're on.
Way too many stories about OSRAM bulbs performing not to spec on this forum.

USHIO is the best choice. Yes, there are Christie lamps, they are essentially USHIO bulbs, but tailored specifically to Christie projectors. Actually, USHIO OWNS Christie.

- Carsten

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Ian Freer
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 133
From: Wellington, New Zealand
Registered: Oct 2003


 - posted 11-13-2015 02:55 AM      Profile for Ian Freer   Email Ian Freer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rachael, no need to think you have poor equipment, a CP2220 is a good projector!

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Dave Macaulay
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1938
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 11-13-2015 06:05 AM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osram digital projector lamps were originally not too good.
Roughly a year ago after considerable research and development work, Osram made major changes to the lamps and I have had no problems with them since then. The 2200W has been great.
Ushio /L lamps - the light goes to crap as they age: it isn't much of an improvement to provide extended life when the light output is super bad for half of it.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 11749
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 11-13-2015 07:14 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dave...my findings are the exact opposite on the "L" lamps...they hold their light MUCH better over time. The DXL-20BAF/L and the DXL-30BAF/L have performed incredibly well for us, in particular. In fact, I think they goosed the light output on the DXL-30BAF/L because the power needed to hit the same level went notably down.

The other Ushio killer lamp has been the DXL-16BAF for us...I've used it in C and B Barco projectors and it is just phenomenal in its light output and stability. I have also used the DXL-22BAF in the DP2K-12C with excellent results.

Now here is a universal truth I've found with the xenon lamps (any brand)...if you run them at 90% and above, they are going to decay rather quickly. It is much better to design a system where by you start the lamp at the bottom of its range and you'll find that it hangs out there for quite a bit of its life...as you need more power to hold the light level...the decay progresses more rapidly...but as you cross 90%...it is going to start to take a faster nose dive.

If one is using a "film" lamp like an "HS" style...the decay is MUCH more rapid (more than twice as fast).

One thing people can do to get more life out of their lamps is to periodically refocus the lamps (or do a full lamp alignment) to keep the arc optimized for the optics. You don't want to run that lamp any harder than you need to. As the electrodes burn-back and that arc opens up...efficiency goes to squat. As the envelope darkens it also is a cascading effect of more heat, less light.

I've found that running "HS" lamps in the NEC projectors to be a very false economy. If you have enough light (14fL) using a 2KW HS lamp...you probably could have run a DXL-15SN and gotten more light and life (3000 warranted hours). At one point, there weren't many lamp sizes for the NEC "C" series...just the 2000SN3 and the various 4000 watt sizes for the 2000C. But now you have 1200, 1500 as well as the other lamps. NEC doesn't have a 3000-watt specific lamp (officially) for the current projectors, they use the DXL-40SCN (4KW)...but it puts out no more light than a 3K and costs similar to a 3K in the NC2000C. To get what other DLPs get on their 3K systems, you have to put in the DXL-40SN2 but it only last 1000 hours...but compared to a film lamp (UXL-30SC or other brand 3KW film lamps)...it is more than twice as bright. The NECs are not very light efficient.

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2246
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002


 - posted 11-13-2015 10:18 AM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
Now here is a universal truth I've found with the xenon lamps (any brand)...if you run them at 90% and above, they are going to decay rather quickly. It is much better to design a system where by you start the lamp at the bottom of its range
Back when I was buying Superior Quartz lamps for my film gear, I was told that some ranges of lamps were essentially the same model. Only the warranty hours were adjusted to reflect the expected usage.

I'm guessing this would have applied to their mid-sized lamps, up to 4,000 watts, as their 7kW bulb was a monster. I wonder if Ushio's DXL65BA2 and DXL70BA bulbs might be the same animal... and possibly the DXL60BA2 as well.

The difference in warranty hours between the 6,000 and 6,500 watt lamps represents nearly a third of an average season here.

Any truth to this with other companies, and if so, is it still going on? Some manufacturer specs would seem to support this.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 11749
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 11-13-2015 03:15 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't doubt that some manufacturers have done that...some have also changed the pressure inside of the lamp between models.

I've handled both the DXL-60BA2 and the DXL-65BA and they don't feel like the same lamp to me and put out different light levels. Related to the discussion above, when the DXL-60BA2/L came out...again...light levels went up to what they were getting with the DXL-65BA (the 6500 watt lamps last SO short that gaining a couple hundred hours is a SIGNIFICANT savings). The DXL-60BA2/L has been a real winner for us.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8161
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 11-13-2015 08:15 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On the topic of the 65BA2 and the 60BA2/L:

I've noticed that the size of the envelope between the two are very noticeable were the larger wattage bulb is actually smaller than the other where you would think of the opposite.

My 2D house gets the 60BA2/L and my 3D house gets the 65BA2.

Curious on why of this envelope design.

thx - Monte

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Rachael Barbash
Film Handler

Posts: 23
From: Columbus, Ohio, US
Registered: Feb 2009


 - posted 11-16-2015 01:34 PM      Profile for Rachael Barbash   Author's Homepage   Email Rachael Barbash   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ian - haha sorry. I love our CP2220. I've about had it with our NEC projectors though.

Thanks all for your input. You've been incredibly helpful!

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