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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Barco S series brightness issues (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Barco S series brightness issues
Alexander Merlin
Film Handler

Posts: 4
From: Pavlovskiy Posad, Moscow region
Registered: Oct 2015


 - posted 10-27-2015 06:35 AM      Profile for Alexander Merlin   Author's Homepage   Email Alexander Merlin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dear Colleagues,
From overall cases we have remove cases with exceeded dust what obvious environment problems.
And look only on sites, where normal ventilation (within 4 cub meters per
hour) and clear environment.

For all of these "good" cases, projector lost 40 to 80% from initial brightness. It is after annual maintenance! No one C projector have such statistic. S series - all of them.

Do you have the same problems with S series projectors?

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3626
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 10-27-2015 09:23 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Which lamps are you running in these machines?

The small 0.69" machines are a special breed. And so may be their lamps.

Maintenance should have shown unusual dust/smear build-up in the light engine. Also, one could measure bulb brightness independently from specific machine output, so to find out wether it's a bulb or a light-engine issue.

- Carsten

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Alexander Merlin
Film Handler

Posts: 4
From: Pavlovskiy Posad, Moscow region
Registered: Oct 2015


 - posted 10-27-2015 10:18 AM      Profile for Alexander Merlin   Author's Homepage   Email Alexander Merlin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Differet lamps.
For example, DP2K-10S and 8 meters screen mattwhite.
On installation projector has brightness 24 fL on Scope Ushio 22 baf.
After annual maitenence projector has 7 fl with 22 baf lamp.
I cleaned reflector, light pipe, all mirrors, removed formatter boards and cleaned DLP chips. All optical path is clean, but I can not understand when 15-18 fl? And these is very much.

Alexander

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16091
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-27-2015 10:29 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How did you clean the reflectors? One must be very careful doing that as they are all front surface. Some of the coatings are measured in molecules of thickness... Light pipe is quartz and less critical, but great care must still be exercised because the ones I clean are coated...

I use Panchro Lens cleaner to clean heat mirrors, angle mirrors and other critical coated items. The is the same cleaner used by camera manufacturers (Arriflex and Panavis
ion) to clean front surface spinning mirrors in film cameras.

Mark

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2536
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 10-27-2015 02:59 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Alexander Merlin
removed formatter boards and cleaned DLP chips
[Eek!] [Eek!]

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16091
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-28-2015 03:27 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are things that some of us are not afraid to do. I have also had the occasion in the past year to dismantle a prism in order to clean it. You just need the correct tools and patience.

Mark

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2536
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 10-28-2015 04:52 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm just merely pointing out that removing chips is not exactly supposed to be done and I don't know what kind of coating is there. I also don't have data on S-series brightness so I cannot comment on that either but allow me to feel sceptical if I read about poor brightness and chips being removed in the same paragraph.

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2052
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 10-28-2015 04:54 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The internal CLO sensor reading should be independent of any light engine stuff, it's measured at the mirror before the LE. The "S" CLO readings were pretty weird with early software but it seems better now: I'm not sure how the projected image brightness would affect the reading at the CLO sensor but it did, quite a bit.
Lamp hour fade seems more severe with the small gap 0.69" chip lamps than with the C or B projectors but if you get that much drop with a new lamp compared with the original levels... something is strange.
Are you certain the installers were honest with their original luminance readings? After specifying the small projector, there's some incentive for the integrator to report excellent light readings if it's not bright enough. Barco's lens/projector calculator is good... but unless you put in realistic light path loss and lamp aging factors it selects impractically low power projectors.
Plus: Are your screens losing reflectance somehow? I worked with one 3D site where a chemical processing businesses nearby caused rapid deterioration of the reflective screens.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2536
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 10-28-2015 06:15 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good point. Also, do you have high gain screens? If so, your installer may have - intentionally or not - pointed their meter to the hotspot. The brightness difference on a high gain screen can be huge.

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Alexander Merlin
Film Handler

Posts: 4
From: Pavlovskiy Posad, Moscow region
Registered: Oct 2015


 - posted 10-29-2015 03:01 AM      Profile for Alexander Merlin   Author's Homepage   Email Alexander Merlin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dear Colleagues,
I work in integrator company and I installed about 25 projectors S series include this, and all projectors have low brightness after one year using.
I use JETY with actual virification date. Data about measure - really. I want to understand why after annual maintenance the brightness is 15-25% from use start day? Optical path is clean. For clean of reflector I use Lens cleaner. The screens is not subjected to chemical treatment. (interesting case).
Alexander

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2536
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 10-29-2015 04:48 AM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Was the lamp being used on the two measurements the same lamp, or a brand new one anyway?
What does the CLO sensor says? Does it report the same loss of light?

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Alexander Merlin
Film Handler

Posts: 4
From: Pavlovskiy Posad, Moscow region
Registered: Oct 2015


 - posted 10-29-2015 05:07 AM      Profile for Alexander Merlin   Author's Homepage   Email Alexander Merlin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ushio 2,2 kWt, the same.
I would like to know somebody has problem with brightness on S seriers projecotors? or all projectors S series have perfect brightness in the worldwide? [Wink]

Alexander

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2536
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 10-29-2015 05:35 AM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
same = same hours. Obviously a brand new 22BAF will be MUCH brighter than a 1000hours old one.

Some drop in brightness is expected to be honest. I believe this is true for any projector.
Not 80% of course.

Also, and sorry if I'm teaching you how to suck eggs, did you re-align the lamp after maintenance? And again: what does the CLO sensor says? Does it report the same massive drop or does it show roughly what you would expect?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12052
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 10-29-2015 07:22 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Generally, if a projector is losing brightness, it is a strong indication of dirt build up on optics within the projector. There is a lot of forced air in a projector and none of the filtering systems are perfect. I've cleaned a projector's optics (from reflector to light engine) and increased brightness by over 10% and the projector was only in operation for a bit over a year.

Drywall dust is NASTY stuff and will show up as this VERY fine powder in the projector.

I just saw an NC900 projector (NEC) with about 3000 hours on it...looked clean on the outside and the filters looked "normal". Inside, drywall dust was all over the optics and fans.

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2052
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 10-29-2015 11:41 AM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Barco claims their light engines are sealed airtight. I've never had any LE dirt problems with one. Christie and NEC, yes.
Looking at records for one 10S I see the light has dropped from 14 at 2200W to 8 at 2006W as the Osram 2200W lamp has gone from 1600 to 2600 hours. Another one with an Ushio 22BAF has increased power 30% after 1000h (in two years, summer only location) to hold the same brightness.

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