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Author Topic: Sony Srx-515 Discoloration
Michael Kurtzke
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Ashburn, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2013


 - posted 05-11-2015 10:44 PM      Profile for Michael Kurtzke   Email Michael Kurtzke   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Over the past few months, I've had to replace the T-Cores on all of my Sony 515's.

While I've noticed that colors drifted slightly overtime [mainly due to lamp age], a quick re-shoot with our Minolta CS-100A would fix the issue 95% of the time.

But around 12,000 hours, everything starts to go a little crazy, but only in the dark parts of the image. The Grey 10 and 8 test patterns look fine, but grey 2 is just an awful mess.

Take a look at what I walked into this morning in one of my auditoriums [Mind you, it looked perfectly fine on Friday]

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That is not the worst one I've seen. Take a look at this:

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And here's what it looks like with a 3D Lens on [It's a 3D House]

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Has anyone else with a 515 seen this issue? It's a little bothersome that we have replaced the T-Core in now all of our 515's. Some of them have been replaced two or three times.

I love the contrast ratio on these guys, but this makes me wish we just had 320's in all of our houses.

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Alan Gouger
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 501
From: Bradenton, FL, USA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 05-11-2015 11:26 PM      Profile for Alan Gouger   Author's Homepage   Email Alan Gouger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Michael what is the T-core?
What watt lamps are you using and how many at a time I wonder if that yellow blotch is heat related.
The other image looks like the projector is in need a gamma and uniformity calibration. Shooting the colors would not resolve the uniformity issue. This can be done using Sonys new PCAB-G & PCAB-U calibration cameras.
Have you changed the lamp order?
From the test pattern drop down menu select "test mode"...what are you seeing?
Looking at your hours the light engine might be in need of a good cleaning something easily done by a Sony authorized technician.
I have a 515 & 3D package ( low hours ) I have yet to see this issue.

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Michael Kurtzke
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Ashburn, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2013


 - posted 05-12-2015 12:13 AM      Profile for Michael Kurtzke   Email Michael Kurtzke   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Alan,

I'm using all six 330W lamps at around 90% power on this particular screen [our smallest house]. We've also got the PCAB-U and have performed a gamma and uniformity correction every six months or so with our PM's.

Because all but two of our screens are 30ft+, we leave all six 450W lamps on at around 80-90% power.

The T-Core [Optical Block in the 320/220's] is where the RGB LCoS chips and the prism are.

"TEST MODE" is fine.

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Alan Gouger
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 501
From: Bradenton, FL, USA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 05-12-2015 12:53 AM      Profile for Alan Gouger   Author's Homepage   Email Alan Gouger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If test mode checks out ok then I am betting your in need of a good cleaning with a gamma/uniformity calibration follow-up.
This will also restore contrast.
If you are under a service contract request Sony send someone to perform the procedure. Out of contract it should not take a qualified technician very long it is not very difficult.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 05-12-2015 03:59 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Michael Kurtzke
"TEST MODE" is fine.

You mean 'Test Mode' looks smooth, but projecting DCPs or grey test patterns delivers these blotchy images? That's weird and sounds like a complete mess in the gamma/uniformity correction tables. Test Mode doesn't use these tables. Sounds as if the last correction had been applied before cleaning or T-Core swap, and now 'bad' corrections or 'over corrections' are in place. Maybe someone restored the corrections for the old T-Cores in the new ones, or the LPD-7 boards were swapped back (these contain the correction tables)? You should try to reset uniformity tables first. Normally one would say: backup the old ones before, but in this case backing up crap seems like a useless waste of time ;-)

Who did recommend/supervise swapping the T-Cores? Were there attempts to clean or do uniformity corrections before that? If this could have been solved by cleaning or uniformity corrections, why was the more expensive T-Core swap performed?

Good last Friday, now it looks like that? I can hardly believe this is possible over a weekend, maybe there was a glitch and corrections tables were reset?

Of course it is possible that the previous T-Cores were bad, but if Test Mode now looks smooth, the new ones still seem to be perfect. Just the wrong corrections in place.

- Carsten

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 05-12-2015 10:27 AM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Michael Kurtzke
I love the contrast ratio on these guys, but this makes me wish we just had 320's in all of our houses.
Obviously Carsten knows more about the 515 than I do (I've never actually encountered a 515, but I have extensive experience with the 320), but I can tell you that this is a normal sign of aging on a 320 and requires an Optical Block replacement. Uniformity adjustment with the Sony camera and PCAT software tool will not correct that yellow discoloration. If the optics in the "T-core" in the 515 are the same as in the OB in the 320, then my guess is that this is normal aging and replacing the T-core was the correct fix.

Again, I have no actual experience with the 515. Just giving you my experience with the 320 as a basis for comparison. Carsten or anyone else intimately familiar with the 515, please correct me if I'm wrong.

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Alan Gouger
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 501
From: Bradenton, FL, USA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 05-12-2015 10:46 AM      Profile for Alan Gouger   Author's Homepage   Email Alan Gouger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Ken Lackner
but I can tell you that this is a normal sign of aging on a 320 and requires an Optical Block replacement.
In this case the yellow or uniformity issue does not show up in "test mode"
As Carsten mentions odds are an incorrect uniformity file was loaded or the projector did not take the last calibration data correct.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 05-12-2015 02:18 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Ken Lackner
but I can tell you that this is a normal sign of aging on a 320 and requires an Optical Block replacement.
It is entirely possible, but I can hardly believe this happens on a 515 in such a short time, even with all 6 lamps burning for multiple shows a day.

Also, the mentioned 'test mode' shows white light full frame without any lookup corrections applied. If that shows even white distribution, it can not be the light-engine/T-Core, it would actually indicate perfect condition of the full optical path.

Let's hope it's just a software/correction table issue.

- Carsten

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Michael Kurtzke
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Ashburn, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2013


 - posted 05-12-2015 02:22 PM      Profile for Michael Kurtzke   Email Michael Kurtzke   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Carsten Kurz
Good last Friday, now it looks like that? I can hardly believe this is possible over a weekend, maybe there was a glitch and corrections tables were reset?

And this is where it gets 'fun'. This is our 8th time replacing a T-Core on a 515 at this site.

Before swapping the T-Core, Sony has sent technicians to do a full cleaning of the projector. When that didn't solve anything, they would replace everything in the light path [XDM, P/S Converter, RGB Filters on the T-Core, Lens, LPD-7, SY-401, etc.] and then perform a gamma/uniformity correction.

Even after all that, it would either 1) not resolve the issue and we would install a new T-Core, or 2) it would 'fix' the issue, but it would start to come back within a week or two.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 05-12-2015 02:34 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Can you confirm that test-mode is clean, and only various grey-patterns blotchy? Of course, that would rule out any optical components (filters, dirt, etc.), Hard to believe the LCOS panels could have nonlinearities like this - 100% smooth at full white, but blotchy with anything below full white....?

I do have some experience with analyzing discoloration on the 515/510, but so far it was only a cleaning or uniformity issue, and only minor discoloration anyway.

How old are these machines? Serial numbers?
Ours is two years old, very early model, but does only one show a day, and with only 2*450W running (2D only). All discoloration so far I have seen on this and other 515s was caused by dust on specific areas of the color-filters and mirrors, caused by a suboptimal laminar airflow around the edges of these filters. Depending on environment and operating time, this would occur sooner or later but could always be solved by cleaning, and/or doing uniformity.

I hope this is not history repeating...how could Sony possibly continue to serve that market with panels that are not stable?

The old PCAT saves uniformity and gamma correction values as readable CSV files. It's easy to open them up in EXCEL and actually recognize the correction patterns visually. Don't know if the new PCAB-U/G allows this.

- Carsten

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Michael Kurtzke
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Ashburn, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2013


 - posted 05-12-2015 03:19 PM      Profile for Michael Kurtzke   Email Michael Kurtzke   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Carsten Kurz
Can you confirm that test-mode is clean, and only various grey-patterns blotchy?
Here is a picture of it before we swapped the T-Core this morning:

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This particular unit's serial number is #1100387, we had them installed in March 2013.

And yes, you can still edit the CSV files when you use the PCAB-U/G

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 05-13-2015 05:04 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
weird...very weird...

So your machine is same age as ours. Installed it March 23rd, 2013, #1100037

- Carsten

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-19-2015 11:06 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Welcome to the womderful world of Sony Michael. This is exactly why most of the rest of the world went DLP.

Mark

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 05-19-2015 03:33 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I shall dig out that picture of an NEC and its blotchy greenish-reddish black. In fact, I have two.

It must have been because of the factory heppa filters.

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