Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Warren Grand Infinity Auditorium (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 6 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6 
 
Author Topic: Warren Grand Infinity Auditorium
Sam Graham
AKA: "The Evil Sam Graham". Wackiness ensues.

Posts: 1431
From: Waukee, IA
Registered: Dec 2004


 - posted 01-11-2015 06:45 PM      Profile for Sam Graham   Author's Homepage   Email Sam Graham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At the request of Brad, Steven Guttag, and a Facebook friend who peppered me with DM's while I was experiencing explosive diarrhea in a Captain D's bathroom (oh wait, that was also Steven), I am creating a dedicated thread for discussion on Bill Warren's fabulous new multiplex in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma.

This is one of two "Grand Infinity" auditoriums in the building. Notice the screen with the deep curve.

 -
The red stuff is all dark during the feature. There's no accent lighting in the room at all.

To give a bit better perspective, here's a shot from where I initially sat, I think the fifth row or so.

 -
My neck hurts.

Projection is from a 4K laser unit mounted in the ledge of the balcony, so throw is from the middle of the auditorium.

 -

Steve's key questions were "how even is the lighting" and "what about the geometrics of the image". The lighting was pretty even, even sitting that close. But the picture bend was terrible from that close. The green band trailer notice looked like a warped smiley face. But if you moved further back, it was less of a problem. And that image was sharp. Very nice. You want to sit back further anyway to get the full Dolby ATMOS effect.

So will my commute to see movies at a Warren be moving from Wichita to Tulsa? No. I prefer to sit closer and the 13th Avenue Warren's flat screens work for me. I'm also not really sold on Dolby ATMOS so far. But props for trying this. Go check it out if you can.

Anyway...discuss.

 |  IP: Logged

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 01-11-2015 07:44 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I intend to check out the new Warren Broken Arrow location in the next few weeks. It all depends on the movie choices though. Something gives me the impression American Sniper won't be a very aggressive Dolby Atmos mix (I hope I'm wrong about that). Maybe Kingsman: The Secret Service will be worth the 200 mile drive. We'll see.

But yeah, I obviously have some very mixed feelings about a deep curve screen approach like this, given the 'scope format has been shit upon big time by d-cinema. The current letter-boxing like HDTV approach sucks ass 100% and will give theater operators nothing but total incentive to build new theaters totally with common width screens where flat is bigger than scope. Just totally damned backwards. With 'scope already being terribly compromised in d-cinema a deep curve screen might only make matters worse. We'll just have to see about it though.

I e-mailed Warren Theaters a couple different times asking questions about this theater. In both instances Bill Warren responded to my emails, which really surprised me. I figured if I received a response it would have come from someone on a lower rung of the ladder. That seemed pretty cool. When the Broken Arrow Warren first opened its web site page wasn't indicating if movies were being played with Dolby Atmos audio. I asked them to correct that and they did. I also asked if they were going to upgrade the Grand Auditoriums in their Wichita and Moore locations with laser projection and Dolby Atmos. Bill Warren simply said they're thinking about it. So I guess those upgrades may hinge on the success of the Broken Arrow Warren.

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-11-2015 07:49 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Then I think they failed. The idea of a Cinerama type screen IS to sit close to have that thing wrap around you such that you have to turn your head to see it all...just like in real life.

As I figured, they are missing a key element..which is a lens that will distort the image such that it looks "normal" on the deep curved screen. With film, we mostly had that with the ISCO type "C" lenses...horizontal lines were pretty straight to the masking. Vertical lines would pincushion (progressively as you moved towards the sides of the image) but since the width was much larger than the height, it was really only objectionable in the corners. The Magna-Com65 would also do a decent job of creating a good "Flat" image on a deep curve screen.

What should be done for DCinema, if this sort of design is to continue, is to design a purpose built lens that fits the image to the screen and only distort the image in the horizontal plane. Given that Warren is purpose building these theatres, the needed throw ratio(s) should be known. Furthermore, with an anamorphic lens one could have a fixed prime lens for both flat and scope.

I personally think the concept shown hear has more merit than the "Escape" type theatre as the effect could apply to all features. Yes there are those that don't like the deep-curve screen but my 30+ years, I have found that the vast majority of people will flock to a theatre with one. You just don't get that effect in the home. However, you have to do it well. The image has to look as good as possible or it is just a gimmick.

 |  IP: Logged

Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012


 - posted 01-11-2015 08:39 PM      Profile for Terry Lynn-Stevens   Email Terry Lynn-Stevens   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What exactly is Warren trying to do with their curved screen?

 |  IP: Logged

Buck Wilson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 894
From: St. Joseph MO, USA
Registered: Sep 2010


 - posted 01-11-2015 08:56 PM      Profile for Buck Wilson   Email Buck Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't hate the concept of a curved screen but I've never seen it done properly.(Never seen Cinerama) Even 90's era AMC Toris screens or whatever they're called drive me NUTS. Bottom center of image gets cut off, curved green bands and everything else. Looks so unnatural.

I was not aware that the new Broken Arrow location was to have curved screens(even if only on the infinity auditoriums), I don't feel nearly so pressed to make it down there now. But I still will at some point.

Bobby perhaps provide Mr. Warren the link to this thread/site after a while to give him some ideas on how to improve the situation and what the pros think... He obviously cares and to that I give him mad props.

If I had a hero... It'd likely be him!

 |  IP: Logged

Sam Graham
AKA: "The Evil Sam Graham". Wackiness ensues.

Posts: 1431
From: Waukee, IA
Registered: Dec 2004


 - posted 01-11-2015 10:30 PM      Profile for Sam Graham   Author's Homepage   Email Sam Graham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Buck Wilson
Bobby perhaps provide Mr. Warren the link to this thread/site after a while to give him some ideas on how to improve the situation and what the pros think... He obviously cares and to that I give him mad props.
You guys do anything that gets me kicked out of the Warren properties and there will be HELL TO PAY.

 |  IP: Logged

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 01-11-2015 10:46 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would not be at all surprised if Bill Warren already knows about Film-Tech and its forum.

With such a deep curve screen and a rather unique placement of the laser projector, it would only seem logical to guess there's some kind of unusual lens mounted on that projector -if not something completely custom built, perhaps an optic culled from a projection setup designed for curved screens, like D-150.

 |  IP: Logged

Terry Monohan
Master Film Handler

Posts: 379
From: San Francisco CA USA
Registered: May 2014


 - posted 01-11-2015 10:55 PM      Profile for Terry Monohan   Email Terry Monohan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Don't they make a corrective lens for deep curved screens to take out the bending of letters ect. I have seen this used in many deep curved screens and the lettering stays flat across the curved screen. TODD-AO had a special type of lens used in some theatres also. It was mainly for the projection booth that was from high up in the balcony shooting a image way down on a deep curved screen. It did a good job with the keystone effect.

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-12-2015 06:23 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At this point, there is nothing for DCinema that I've been told about or seen. Based on the description and conversation I had with Sam, the image is not being corrected on the screen. The image is indeed "bent."

For everyone else besides DCinema, projectors are allowed to "warp" an image to make them look normal on a curved screen. DCinema prohibits that. So we are stuck with having a lens custom made.

As stated above, there WERE lenses for film to compensate for a deep-curve screen...no, you can't just plop one of those on a DCinema projector.

 |  IP: Logged

Ian Freer
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 135
From: Wellington, New Zealand
Registered: Oct 2003


 - posted 01-12-2015 01:23 PM      Profile for Ian Freer   Email Ian Freer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Although I guess it would be expensive, surely Schneider or some one 'could' make custom lenses for this sort of installation? They have made lenses for Dome cinema installation from 4K DLP and on their website say they can supply with lens mounts for all three DLP cinema projector manufacturers...

 |  IP: Logged

Jarod Reddig
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 513
From: Hays, Ks
Registered: Jun 2011


 - posted 01-12-2015 04:37 PM      Profile for Jarod Reddig   Email Jarod Reddig   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The place looks fantastic! Thanks for the pics Sam. I was in Broken Arrow last year about this time with my wife. I now have another reason to go back and check out the place. Ive always been a huge fan of Bill Warrens' theaters. Wish his Wichita, Kansas locations would get laser and Atmos.

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-12-2015 04:50 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To me the curve looks like D150. There are no pictures of the screen with the curtains open that I know of so I can only assume that's what it's like. With the D150 screen at the Continental in Denver, the top and bottom center of the image was indeed cut off. You'd have to frame a bit high on some movies with subtitles but usually it was OK (just very, very close to the edge). If you think of how the lens sees the screen, it sees it as a 2D bowtie shape. The aperture plate reflects that. That screen has been replaced with Regal's RPX nonsense and I have no idea if the new screen has a curve or not, but I assume the new one is flat.

I do like how this new Warren auditorium has curtains. From what I can tell the stadium seating either seems to be non-existent or not extreme. This is also good. How is the sound in the auditorium?

 |  IP: Logged

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 01-12-2015 07:36 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Warren's Grand Auditoriums (Grand Infinity in this case) all have standard sloped seating to accommodate balconies.

The Grand Infinity houses in Broken Arrow are Warren's first Atmos installations, and they seem to imply through their web site that they're maxed out in terms of amplifiers and speakers. Not sure how one could confirm that just from visiting the theater.

Here is a news story and video about the big curved screens and a look at the screen during installation.

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-12-2015 08:47 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Looking at the video the curve doesn't seem as extreme as this thread had led me to believe. It seems less curved than a D150.

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-12-2015 08:50 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Personally I do not like curved screens at all. A deep curved screen like this would look horrible in my opinion due to the geometric distortion of the image (unless there is something with the lensing that Christie/Warren has done that we don't know about).

Then again I would take a curved screen ANY DAY before a screen without masking.

That being said I don't think there is a single person that doesn't firmly agree with me when I state that Warren's use of actual curtains is a super class act.

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 6 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.