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Author Topic: Trumbull's 120FPS-4K project Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 06-21-2014 11:14 PM                     Question: I was approached one day at work by a fellow who claimed to be a local film director using "Red" digital cameras, and he went to Seattle to witness Trumbull's 120fps,4k, 3D project film called: "UFOTOG". .. and this fellow was absolutely spellbound on the presentation results. He heard that Christie, along with DLP, did create a digital unit to handle this huge amount of data along with a flash storage system to hold all of that information. He came by to ask me on about my BARCO digital setup and if these units can handle 120fps. I simply told him with that much data to stream into these projectors, it would be way too much along with the package size would have to be very large. Then, he hits me with something link-shooting with two cameras at 60fps with one camera being one frame off so the two contents can be paired together to be 120fps that this is what Trumbull did with his presentation. But a question was that if is if after editing the content he has shot, could he split the image/data back into 60 fps video and used two drives to feed the projector through 2 different ports so the projector could handle all of this content. His big thing is that he wants to find out if a current DLP series two unit can handle 120fps and what would it take to make one handle 120fps. Interesting to say the least. - Monte  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-22-2014 06:57 AM                     120fps 2K 2D is currently doable on some IMBs. What will be the ceiling on all IMBs designed and released by 2012 will be a 500 Mb/s limit bandwidth, regardless of how you cut it up. In fact, only the most recent stuff is trying to push that, like Barco's ICMP. Even Doremi's IMS1000 has a 500Mb/s limit. Barco had to essentially make their own ICP to do it too. It can do 4K 60fps 2D or 4K 30fps 3D. Barco is the highest frame rate of currently available IMB/IMS solutions...though I don't know if all of its advertised features are currently functional. Then again, I haven't seen any commercial releases of HFR 3D beyond the Hobbit in 48fps 2K...and that hasn't exactly won the world over. It is also only a 450Mb/s system. So I'm wondering if there isn't some dual projector work going on which would allow each projector to run 4K 2D at 60fps.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 06-22-2014 12:39 PM                     Trumbull did not use DCI machines for the UFOTOG presentation. Christies Mirage projector e.g. has enough bandwidth to show 4k at 120Hz. The hardware platform is identical to their Solaria series2 machines, but it uses a beefed up input section and NO ICP. http://www.christiedigital.com/en-us/news-room/press-releases/Pages/christie-mirage-4k35-screens-trumbulls-ufotog-premiere.aspx In current DCI machines, the ICP is the bottleneck. That's why Barco made their own ICP with the Alchemy IMS. But I think it still tops out at 4k/60fps or 2k/120fps. The Christie will do 4k/120fps. 2D/2k/120fps can be done on any HFR enabled DCI machine. For 3D/2k/120fps, you would need two of them, but standard servers won't be able to play this from a single stream DCP. You would need two synced servers/IMBs playing two DCPs split into L/R. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-22-2014 02:33 PM                     Oh boy here we go again. The worst thing to EVER happen to televisions was the 120Hz refresh rate. Yeah, let's go do that with film now. After all the Hobbit looked so  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 06-22-2014 05:34 PM                     Trumbull knows it. Yet he doesn't give up. Because he is still more into rides and simulations, not into narrative cinema applications: --- As quoted in a 2010 conference panel, Trumbull said: 'I love high frame rates, because I like to make simulation rides and reality-based experiences that are looking to be as realistic as they possibly can, but 24 frames is what I call the “texture” of feature films. And I don’t think anybody’s really ready to see what you would categorize as a feature film shot at 60. And that was one of the tests I did when I was at Showscan; we shot a fully dramatic short film with sets, props, actors, the whole thing at 60 and it was very disturbing. Because it was like live news, or sports, or something.' --- http://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/douglas-trumbull-showscan-digital/ - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-22-2014 06:32 PM                     As anyone who has ever seen Trumbull's film Brainstorm properly presented on film in 70mm knows, "scope" is the simulation of reality and "flat" is just every day blah. It would seem the industry for the most part has come to realize this since 90% of all movie are scope now.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-22-2014 07:21 PM                     Personally, I think it would have been REALLY cool if they could have done actual ShowScan sequences for the "Scope" scenes...it would have been rather dramatic. As it was, it was already in the gimicky state by going between the two...but going to a hyper-real...that would have been awesome, in my opinion.  |  IP: Logged Victor Liorentas Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 800 From: london ontario canada Registered: May 2009 posted 06-22-2014 09:18 PM                     Yes Brainstorm would have been awesome going in and out of Showscan!  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-23-2014 11:42 AM                     Monte... Don't be overly impressed by the fact that he says he owns a Red Camera. It is today's equivalent of yesterdays Super 8 camera and not really much more! If he had said Arriflex Alexa then he might be on to something. Mark  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 06-23-2014 01:54 PM                     Agree - heard about the Arriflex units being tonnage better, but this guy was on a tangent with Red and just let him go on that tangent he was on. He wants to shoot some video using different frame rates, resolutions and possibly play the content at our location to see the results. I told him that he needs to contact the uppers on this one when they're ready to talk -it's out of my hands with this request. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 06-23-2014 03:17 PM                     there is something that puzzles me. We keep installing IMB's HFR ready and we keep talking about HFR... but the only HFR movie were the Hobbit ones and, as Steve suggested, they did not cause havoc outside of the theatres. Compare that with Atmos: since the first release there has been roughly an Atmos release per month. And there are just a few Atmos theatres around the world - while virtually every projector installed today is HFR ready. Either this still has to take off or it's just marketing gibberish.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 06-23-2014 04:30 PM                     Obviously, the results of the HFR presentations were not as breathtaking as anticipated by their endorsers. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-23-2014 06:00 PM                        Oh I think they were breathtaking all right....just not in the right way.  |  IP: Logged Sean Weitzel Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 619 From: Vacaville, CA (1790 miles west of Rockwall) Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-23-2014 06:05 PM                     I agree going in and out of Showscan for the brainstorm POV scenes would have ruled. I've thought some on this and I figure the logistics would have been ridiculous. The entire print would have to be running at 60fps with frames duplicated to "slow down" the storytelling part to look like 24fps. I wonder if there would be any other possible way to pull it off. Also have to believe that the quality of the audio from the magnetic tracks going at 281.25 feet per second would be second to none! (assuming the concept didn't use synced 35mm full coat for sound like IMAX did back during that era)  |  IP: Logged Mike Babb Master Film Handler Posts: 250 From: Norwich UK Registered: Jul 2002 posted 06-25-2014 04:47 PM                        http://www.7thsensedesign.com/ Our Delta® Media Server scales all the way from small form factor single HD playback to 2,3,4,6,8 & 12-Output fully uncompressed video servers with frame-accurate editing, live video input, 3D Stereo capability, UltraHD, 4k60 & 4k120fps over DVI, 4k60fps over SDI plus 8k60fps capability and the fundamental flexibility of realtime composition with built-in effects, realtime warp & blend.  |  IP: Logged

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