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Author Topic: T.M.S. software programs (stand alone) Dennis Benjamin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1445 From: Denton, MD Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-11-2014 08:32 AM                        O.K. So I looked through out the forums and did some online research. Does anyone have a breakdown on stand alone T.M.S. software programs available and their pricing? Does anyone have a preference on the T.M.S. program they use? The reason I ask: I have two theatres opening this summer. They are installing Christie Solaria One Pluses with the internal I.M.B.s They have no plans to put in an LMS or TMS. I am trying to convince them to put in at least a TMS (without the storage). However, I was going to go with a certain company's program - that is until I got their estimate (The per screen price was outrageous). So, I am in the process of getting estimates from other companies. I am building the computer that the program will run on, so I am simply looking for a price on the software program itself. I'd prefer to run it on Linux, but Windows is fine. There wouldn't be anyone out there that knows the pricing on the programs available out there, would there be? No chance of an open source program running out there? I am not trying to break the bank here - just trying to make some people's lives easier. Thanks. Feel free to P.M. me about this subject too.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 06-11-2014 08:46 AM                     Well, at least you need a TMS software that can deal with the Christie IMS. That should be the first consideration. How many screens will these two locations have each? - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 06-11-2014 09:21 AM                     You can do a lot worse than this: CDM Not sure about the Christie IMS, but that's just a matter of APIs. if CDM haven't got them in yet, they will in due course.  |  IP: Logged Kevin Tan Film Handler Posts: 8 From: Singapore Registered: Feb 2014 posted 06-11-2014 10:09 AM                     Can you try GDC TMS, it does support christie IMB.  |  IP: Logged Dennis Benjamin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1445 From: Denton, MD Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-11-2014 02:19 PM                        I am aware of the fact that GDC says that it now supports the Christie IMBs. Certain people at Christie were not aware of it though, ironically. So, after many conference calls and e-mails today, a question actually came up about the Network attached Storage devices. So here is my new question: Is there anyone out there that is running ANY type of TMS program with multiple Christie Solaria Ones with the Christie IMBs and NAS? I ask this as I have multiple people telling me different things as to whether or not this can work. I believe that most of the people that are telling me it will not work - are the same ones that are trying to sell me a Library Media Server with thier TMS software running on it. Which is NOT what I am interested in. I am solely interested in building my own computer and running a stand alone TMS program that can interface with these projectors and IMBs. I am also interested in having the ability to tranfer content around on the network from auditorium to auditorium. At this point, it does look like the GDC TMS is the only viable source for this - but I wanted to keep my options open. By the way - Pete - thank you for that link. I have a single screen theatre that is interested in expanding their capabilities with thier digital projector and that CDM software might be the answer they were looking for.  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-11-2014 03:22 PM                     If a package supports the Christie IMS then the NAS is included. The NAS is just the content storage for the Christie IMS which can't work without it... so if something supports the IMS then it must be OK with the NAS.  |  IP: Logged Kevin Tan Film Handler Posts: 8 From: Singapore Registered: Feb 2014 posted 06-11-2014 08:45 PM                     The content transfer in theatre wide shall be a must functionally for every TMS. I think what you need is a pure software solution (build your own hardware) with Christie IMB & NAS supported TMS.(As Dave mentioned NAS just connect with Christie IMB), but the only issue is there are not much pure software TMS solution out there.  |  IP: Logged Dennis Benjamin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1445 From: Denton, MD Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-13-2014 03:27 PM                        Since my original post, I have become familiar with almost EVERY piece of TMS Software offered on the planet. I do not think I am exaggerating either: Arts Alliance Unique Digital Christie - Avias CineDigital Manager GDC TMS (which I already am very familiar with) I received a crash course on how they price this software out (sometimes per screen, sometimes per screen - per year). Sometimes they will give you the software for free, if you buy a giant LMS from them for 10 grand! I was able to be a part of conference calls and webinars to learn all about thier products. Guess what? They all do pretty much the same thing. ***note: interestingly enough I listed another company in this post - but apparently that company's name raised a red flag and I received some type of warning about it - so I deleted their name***  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-13-2014 04:00 PM                     I've built 30 some GDC based systems and I have to say that until the very latest version of the software it was a tad bit unstable at times... especially during transfers. The current version of the program does not fold up on you when it gets really busy. It's the least expensive off the shelf alternative at this point in time that I am aware of. Mine are based around a Dell 2950III refurbished server with 16 gigs of ram and dual 3.2 ghz quad cores. I only run W-7 pro 64 bit on them and OS install is very easy as all the special drivers for the Dell are included on W-7 64 bit. Some tech's think W-2008 is the only way to go but we're not dealing with shares or accounts here, only running an app that does all of that with in itself... None of that stuff in 2008 (or newer) that you have paid the big bucks for for ever gets utilized. So I settled on W-7 Pro 64 bit. I turn off windows update once I have updated it the first time. Sure, the Dell 2950's are older but they come out of clean type server rooms and the 2950's were always one of the most reliable servers dell ever produced. There is a tower version of the same server known as the 2900 and I have used a few of those in twins and three screen locations. The main thing is to buy the version 3 if you buy refurbished. NTP also works fine once set up according to GDC and IF you maintain internet clock refrence or external GPS locked clock source as a refrence. I use a 500GB SAS 15k rpm based raid 1 for OS and a SATA raid 5 for media storage with 5.4 tb of storage. I add in an extra GB NIC card for internet and POS hookup as well as an eSATA card for the dual cru ingest bay, the server's internal NICS are used for management and media networks. I have used both regular plain old GB switches from Newegg and in other installs I've used locked programmable switches. You can choose depending on your network. Everything in these racks is brand new except the server. This system can be built for about 1/3 the cost of a new rack from Strong and it will perform about as well, it will certainly be as reliable. Assuming you'd be running the GDC software on your Strong rack you are going to get the exact same results I get. I have customers that transfer all six or eight screens worth of content around the building at once and it's actually pretty fast at moving it all with good switches. Below is a photo of the first prototype I built up four years ago. It's still running in a theater today and the Dell's just never die!! Also... I configure all my theater networks the same as it would be for say a Cinedigm system... This way any service tech that's familiar with other TMS systems can service these systems. Also... The center of the rack is open for say a KVM or for satellite receiver/servers. Mark  |  IP: Logged Kevin Tan Film Handler Posts: 8 From: Singapore Registered: Feb 2014 posted 06-14-2014 01:00 AM                     Well, Actually Christie TMS is using the same TMS software as AAM TMS, as my understanding. There are still some tms vendor out there but mainly not in US, for example ADDE ... But might all come with gain hardware.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-14-2014 03:10 AM                     So what are people's opinions of the Ethernet patch bays that the IT types have thrown in on us now? I find them a huge waste of time and a potential source of failure. Just what purpose do they server in a cinema environment? Why not just plug the cable straight into the switch and label it properly. Almost all of the patch bays I see also aren't labeled so there isn't really any organization there. Typically, these racks are about a mile deep and the bays are often near the top...who wants to do a punch down into that? Or one can do a feedthrough RJ45 but if you are going to squeeze on an RJ45...why not just skip a step and go right to the switch? I just don't get the fascination with the patch bays. Just what are we patching? Note, my opinion is the same for audio patch bays. Where we have used them is in situations where one would likely want to patch those signals and the patch bay would "normal" the regular day-to-day. I tend to agree with Mark that the GDC TMS does not really benefit from a full blown server implementation since it is just an application running and there really isn't the traditional client-server relationship you would see in an office type situation. It isn't the server per-say that is talking to the individual theatres so much as the one application. Win 7 Pro seems to do the job. I've done some real low-cost systems using just a Dell tower (Optiplex) and the systems seem to still be going strong after nearly 2-years. Since the GDC TMS can't really handle multiple log-ins (e.g. using RDP to have a different log-in while the end user is logged in on the main screen...oh it will do it but be prepared for problems).  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-14-2014 09:15 AM                     I can imagine the wiring chaos of doing a TMS installation without termination panels ("patch bays"). And the logistical nightmare. Maybe for 3 screens and projectors in the same room it could be OK. Fore a large multiplex and multiple booths... nope. - A professional installation requires certified 1000b-T cabling. I don't have a cable certifier and have no plans to spend thousands of $$$ on one. So a cabling contractor puts in the cables and supplies certification test documents. They come in well before the TMS is installed and do the ceiling lifting, ladder wrangling, etc for the cabling. If there is no TMS rack on site yet (there should be!) they install the cabling and do the certification after the rack is in so they can install the patchpanel, this is a fairly quick job. Having the cable guys on site at the same time we're doing projector and TMS installation would be extremely difficult. - You are using idiots to install network cabling if the patch panel is not labeled. - Network wiring "done right" uses patch panels. They are reliable. Even with pull-thru plugs, terminating a patch panel RJ45-F block with punch-downs is much more reliable than doing a RJ45-M cable termination. Decent (not the cheapest available, in other words) patch cables are quite reliable and can easily be replaced if not. - In-rack cabling can be made very tidy with patch cables. It isn't always done that way, but working with loose cables of indeterminate length is asking for a "dropped spaghetti" mess.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-14-2014 10:05 AM                     Dave, We do the cable qualifications (Use a Fluke Networks cable qualifier and provide the results to the NOC if asked...everything is qualified to 1000 Base-T). I agree that patch panels should be labeled but 90% of the time, they don't seem to be or are labeled haphazardly with labels that don't really fit. Why does "networking done right" use patch panels? What makes a punch down, that relies one to strip back a cable, route the ends to the IDC punchdown point and strain relieve that cable, without violating any bend-radius rules, and have many unrelated pairs in close proximity have over a properly terminated RJ45M where the jacket remains in tact all of the way into the connector? The patch bay becomes mostly another point of failure. I agree that patch cables can be cheap and reliable...though there is always a bad apple in there too. We qualify everything...every once in a while, there is a dud. As for loose cables of indeterminate length...who said anything about that? I don't advocate putting it in all crazy. Route them through the rack properly send them out through a suitable panel (can be one like the Middle Atlantic Products BR1 or even a proper patch cable wire trough. Nothing says it can't be neat. Even in a large plex, it just isn't that big a deal to dress up the two cables per theatre into a TMS system. What we normally specify is that if the client wants to install their own cables ahead of us (we prefer it actually) then they can terminate into biscuits (surface mount boxes) at each theatre and just have the TMS drop down with a minimum length and marked. Invariably, if there is a problem, it is where they punched down into biscuits at the theatre end. There are times I'd rather just put both ends on since when we pull our own Ethernet...it just works. I'm just not a fan of unnecessary patch bays that will never actually be patched. They seem like a waste of time, money and can lead to unnecessary failures.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-14-2014 12:50 PM                     I've never had any issues with patch bays... a few bad patch cables... yes! They allow a lot of flexibility in the system for not a lot of extra cost. As a facility adds screens or split up existing ones you just plug in the theaters to the patch bay and the jumper to the switch. No need to attempt to work inside or behind the rack in the dark. In my Dell 2900 based systems I do not use patch bays or even a rack for that matter. I go directly into the switches. But this is only for up to three screens. Past that the cabling gets pretty unwieldy and needs a permanent home to be secured in and to prevent damage to it. The 2900 does offer the same exact CPU speed, RAM, media storage capacity, power supply and fan redundancy that the rack mount server does. It only has a single internal CRU bay instead of a dual. The 2900's are not as common and I don't even know if there is a newer version Dell that replaced it like there is with the rack servers. The picture is of a TMS in a twin cinema.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-15-2014 08:58 AM                     And I come back to...what better flexibility? Without the patch bay, you get the SAME flexibility...if not more. Add screens and need to renumber? No problem if you plug straight to the switch...just move the cable over to the other port. Add new cables...same effort, just bring it in and plug in. You've shown zero improvement in anything by using a patch bay. You've only added work and added connection (failure points) to the system.  |  IP: Logged

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