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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » "Locking Out" Frame Rates?

   
Author Topic: "Locking Out" Frame Rates?
Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1537
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted 01-14-2014 11:53 PM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a couple of policy clip DCP's I created some time ago that were
encoded at 30fps. (Before I knew better than to do that!)

However, over the years, I've been able to play them at more than a dozen
theaters in at least 3 different states with no trouble.

However, I recently tried to use them at a theater here in San Francisco, and they
would not work. A little red 'film frame' icon appears next to the clip name
when you try to ingest it into the Dolby DSS 220 server.

The projector is a Chritie CP2210. I can't recall if the IMB is a Christie or Dolby.

Today I tried generating two short clips that were identcial except for that
one was at 24fps and one at 30fps. The 24fps worked OK, and the 30fps didn't,
at this one location.

And yet at another theater with IDENTICAL equipment, BOTH frame rates play OK.

So my question is: Is there some configuration setting in the projector, server
or IMB that would "lock out" anything but a 24fps DCP?

This is the only theater I've encountered that seems to have this quirk.

I'm perplexed.

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Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2095
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted 01-15-2014 02:29 AM      Profile for Justin Hamaker   Author's Homepage   Email Justin Hamaker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
About a year ago we had to update our GDC servers to version 8.01 for DCI compliance. I haven't tried to play anything that is 30fps, but I wonder if it might be related to a similar update.

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Antti Nayha
Master Film Handler

Posts: 258
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 01-15-2014 02:47 AM      Profile for Antti Nayha   Email Antti Nayha   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oddly enough, Dolby Cat 745 still doesn't officially support 30fps or 50fps even though Cat 862 does. I've heard conflicting reports about this in practice, though.

Which Dolby System version are you running?

Here are the current capabilities as listed in the release notes for 4.7.0.42:

DSS200 or DSS220 with CAT745 IMB:
JPEG 2000 4K 2D: 24, 25
JPEG 2000 2K 2D: 24, 25, 48, 60
JPEG 2000 2K 3D: 24, 25, 48, 60
MPEG2: 24, 25, 48, 60

DSS200 with CAT862 IMB:
JPEG 2000 2K 2D: 24, 25, 30, 48, 50, 60
JPEG 2000 2K 3D: 24, 25, 30
MPEG2: 23.98, 24, 25, 29.97, 30

DSS100 with DSP100 IMB:
JPEG 2000 2D: 24, 48
JPEG 2000 3D: 24
MPEG2: 23.98, 24, 29.97, 30

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12084
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-15-2014 06:30 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Antti...I pointed out this misprint to Dolby already.

As of Dolby System 4.7.0...the CAT745 now supports 30fps. In fact, the current list for 4.7.0.42 is:

System Frame Rates for DCP Playback
DSS200 or DSS220 with CAT745 IMB
JPEG 2000 4K 2D: 24, 25
JPEG 2000 2K 2D: 24, 25, 30, 48, 50, 60, 96, 100, 120
JPEG 2000 2K 3D: 24, 25, 30, 48, 50, 60
MPEG2: 23.98, 24, 25, 29.97, 30

DSS200 with CAT862 MB
JPEG 2000 2K 2D: 24, 25, 30, 48, 50, 60
JPEG 2000 2K 3D: 24, 25, 30
MPEG2: 23.98, 24, 25, 29.97, 30, 47.95, 48, 50, 59.94, 60

DSS100 with DSP100 MB
JPEG 2000 2D: 24, 48
JPEG 2000 3D: 24
MPEG2: 23.98, 24, 25, 29.97, 30, 47.95, 50, 60

If you download the current release notes from the DolbyCustomer portal (must have access rights), you'll get the current release notes. Dolby Secure is to be shut down and may no longer contain the most recent information anymore.

Prior to 4.7, the CAT745 would not support 30fps. I have tested the CAT745 with 30fps on 4.7.0.42 and can confirm that it does work.

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Antti Nayha
Master Film Handler

Posts: 258
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 01-15-2014 07:42 AM      Profile for Antti Nayha   Email Antti Nayha   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Steve - that's great news! It's nice to have 30fps DCP support across the board, particularly for festivals that are creating some of their DCP's themselves from a vast variety of source material.

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1537
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted 01-15-2014 09:41 AM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Antti & Steve!
quote: Antti Nayha
Which Dolby System version are you running?
I'm working at another location across town for a couple of days, so
I won't be back at that particular theater until this weekend. I'll take
a look at the software versions, but I feel that the answer to my question
is most likely in the table of info you posted.

I was just curious since, as I said in my original post, so far I've only
encountered this issue at only one theater, out of the dozens I've used this
same 30fps DCP file at.

I assume the "problem" is only limited to playing back DCP files, since
DVD's, & blu-ray disks, as well as a satellite receiver, which I assume are
outputting at 30fps work fine through the DVI-D inputs.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12084
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-15-2014 10:08 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jim,

Yes, the CAT745, on initial release was rather limited in its frame rate capabilities. It looks like it now has the full compliment and had HDMI inputs active now too (2D only and at select resolutions). So any non-CAT745 theatres would not have had the issue. Any CAT745 theatres that are running on software below 4.7 would not handle 30fps.

It was not a projector capability issue. You can check the individual projector manuals to see what their DVI capabilities are.

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1537
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted 01-20-2014 10:04 AM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
FOLLOW-UP:
quote: Steve Guttag
Prior to 4.7, the CAT745 would not support 30fps.
I was at the location in question again on Saturday and took a print out of the
charts you sent and you've nailed the problem. Their system is indeed running
on older software. Vers 4.6.1 and Show Manager 4.6.3 on a DSS 220 & Cat 745.

So that answers my question as to why 30fps DCP's wouldn't work a that location.

Their system isn't that old- - it was installed last summer, but I beleive they got
the equipment "second-hand", so it may have come loaded with the old software.

Thanks again Steve & Antti!

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12084
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-20-2014 10:56 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
4.7.0.42 didn't come out until about Christmas time 2013...so 4.6.1 would have been current for when it was installed. It is a free upgrade to 4.7.0 for the DSS220/CAT745. I'd do it for numerous reasons.

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