Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | my password | register | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Resolved: Problem with a MasterImage MI-2100: Disc won't spin; Up & Down don't work (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Resolved: Problem with a MasterImage MI-2100: Disc won't spin; Up & Down don't work
Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2104
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted 12-21-2013 03:45 PM      Profile for Justin Hamaker   Author's Homepage   Email Justin Hamaker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Friday night at closing the unit was working fine. Opening Saturday and the disc won't start spinning and the Up/Down buttons don't do anything. There is no visible signs of a problem - burned/fried wires, burning electrical, etc.

I have switch the breaker on the front panel on and off multiple times. Ultimately swapped the unit with one from another house using same power and sync cables and the swapped unit is working fine.

On the operating panel, the wait/ok lights are blinking in a repeating pattern: wait & ok 1 simultaneous blink, followed by 4 blinks from ok light.

*** Resolved ***
Turns out the Emergency Stop button got pushed. I thought I check the button during my trouble shooting, but I must not have rotated it enough to disengage the switch.

 |  IP: Logged

John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5436
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-21-2013 04:49 PM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Friday night close guy needs a little talking to then it seems.

 |  IP: Logged

Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2104
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted 12-21-2013 07:04 PM      Profile for Justin Hamaker   Author's Homepage   Email Justin Hamaker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I see it as a training opportunity as much as anything else. In the 3½ year's we've had 3D at my location, we've never had an issue with the emergency stop function.

As with so many other things with digital, it's difficult to train for something going wrong until it actually happens. With film it's easy to teach all the things that can go wrong, and even simulate problems so you can show the cause and effect. With digital you can't really simulate things like a hard drive failing or some other piece of equipment breaking down. Other than showing what happens when a switch isn't turned on, or how to manually load/play a show or move content, most of it is theoretical until it actually needs to be used.

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Elliott
Master Film Handler

Posts: 497
From: Port Orange, Fl USA
Registered: Oct 2006


 - posted 12-21-2013 07:25 PM      Profile for Joe Elliott   Email Joe Elliott   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And as a note, if anyone does not know, never use the emergency stop button, unless it is an actual emergency, like you keys or hand is in the unit!!

I have had a couple theaters use it to stop them at the end of the night. It wears the units out in about 2 months after nightly stops. Also the emergency stop button has a tendency to break easily also.

 |  IP: Logged

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9451
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-22-2013 06:29 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Training oportunity maybe but the theatres customers should not be inconvienced by either the training level of the staff or the technology

 |  IP: Logged

Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2104
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted 12-22-2013 06:39 PM      Profile for Justin Hamaker   Author's Homepage   Email Justin Hamaker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon, we got the issue resolved before anyone was inconvenienced. The only inconvenience was about 15 people watching a 2D show rather than a 3D show, and I don't think anyone was disappointed.

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16152
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-23-2013 08:40 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Not that the 3-D result is bad but I avoid M.I. like the plague. It's amazing someone's tie hasn't been sucked into one yet! Lots of liability spinning aorund there... 3-D sales have slowed down considerably but M.I. can survive on just selling the $500.00 filter wheels every so often. Dust suckers they are...

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17673
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-24-2013 02:35 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Is this the same Mark that only a few years back was saying MasterImage was the best and couldn't be beat?

It might interest you to know MasterImage now has covers and air filters on their system. It's not like it was back when you last used them. [Wink]

 |  IP: Logged

Stefan Vogels
Film Handler

Posts: 48
From: Aarle-Rixtel, Noord-Brabant, Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2010


 - posted 12-24-2013 09:28 AM      Profile for Stefan Vogels   Email Stefan Vogels   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ah M.I, you know what is a good idea. Clean the filter by making it spin full revs and than hold a yellow cloth against it. After that you call your engineer and have him clean out the wheel unraveling 1000 of little strings of yellow fibres [puke]

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16152
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-24-2013 04:36 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Brad... I am the same Mark that posted some for sale here on FT a couple years ago and the same Mark that had the wheels explode (remember the pictures of the damaged lens). While I may have initially thought it clever it certainly turned out not to be. I'd be first in line to admit the 3-D is good, but not good enough to put up with the rest of the nuisance or the liability of a wheel that large spinning away. Or having the sensor plug up with crud right in the middle of a show and the wheel loosing lock.

And yes, I know about the enclosed ones. They SHOULD HAVE BEEN enclosed from day one! They should ALSO be sending free retrofit kits to everyone that bought the first ones so they can enclose theirs. Thankfully Thanks to F-T I am now rid of all the Master Image units I had to maintain...

 |  IP: Logged

Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2104
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted 12-24-2013 05:00 PM      Profile for Justin Hamaker   Author's Homepage   Email Justin Hamaker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just to counter Mark's point, I want to say that I have been working with the Master Image 3D system for nearly 3½ year. To date the only issue I've had on my 2 units is cleaning the polarizing discs.

If it was my choice on which system to buy, I would probably go with RealD just because I like the idea of a more passive system with fewer moving parts. That being said, the MI system works and has been virtually trouble free to this point.

I agree with Mark's point about the risk of things getting sucked into the spinning wheel, but that really seems minimal. Even if someone is wearing a tie, it seems unlikely they would be in a position for the tie to get sucked in. Keep in mind the small opening that light passes through is only about 4" square and is about 5 feet off the ground when the wheel is in the operating position. And since the unit is normally in a narrow gap between the projector and the projection room wall, I just don't see how anyone could get something sucked into the spinning disc.

While there is always the chance this could happen when the unit is moved out of place for cleaning, there is no reason it should be turned on in this situation.

 |  IP: Logged

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9451
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-24-2013 10:33 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If they are stupid enough to get caught in it so be it Darwin theory [Smile]

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12137
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-25-2013 07:28 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The continual problem with Real-D is the cost...it is 50¢ for each ticket. It is the most expensive system out there because you don't own it. The payback of any of the other systems, as compared to Real-D is measured in a fraction of any Real-D contract.

The most popular Real-D system is the XL box...a great engineering device that nearly doubles the light efficiency but does so at the expense of resolution...and forget about alignment on a curved screen.

The only reason people went for Real-D was low up-front costs (typically zero). The pain seems small as compared to those systems that have a decent up-front cost. The other thing, in the US, Real-D has going for it is free glasses. Once that goes away, then it becomes even less attractive. Real-D also has the highest level of ghosting of the 3Ds I've seen.

Master Image just seems to work and Mark does go from extreme "Its Great" to extreme "I'd never use that." That is Mark. I also agree that the chance of harm is small from things like ties...the chance of harm from people trying to clean the disc via motor power is higher though. Compare this to a film projector where ties and long hair DID get sucked into machines...but film projectors had sprockets as compared to a smooth disc.

While I think it would be a good idea for MI to supply upgrade kits to earlier systems to make them safer, I don't think they should be compelled unless a proven danger exists...then again, if someone does get sucked in...the lawsuit may make the cost of updating old systems seem trivial. The fact remains those that bought them in the original configurations knew of the inherent danger of the spinning disc and the potential for dust accumulation.

For 3D performance, I still like Dolby 3D the best but the light efficiency is really lousy with xenon...I'm finding that it is closer to 8% for most systems, particularly on one eye (there is about a 20% difference between the eye efficiencies). Now if/when laser light comes into the affordable world...Dolby 3D will shoot to the top of the pack in efficiency since one won't be filtering anymore...just generating the light you need. It should zoom to near 50% efficient in a single projector set up (minus the dark time for each eye transition) and dual projector systems should be at near 100%. I also like Dolby 3D because it is easy to incorporate into systems with anamorphic lenses (as is XpanD).

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17673
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-25-2013 11:48 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
For the record we have had zero issues with MasterImage. Not one. From a safety standpoint, all of ours has the protective cover. Managers changing lamps is FAR more of a personal hazard than MasterImage's (or anyone's) 3d system.

And yes you can use the MasterImage "wave" unit with an anamorphic. We were the first ones to do it.

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16152
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-25-2013 05:03 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
The fact remains those that bought them in the original configurations knew of the inherent danger of the spinning disc and the potential for dust accumulation
Sure they knew of the spinning disk but there is NOW WAY to tell how you will be affected by crud accumlation on the disks until they've been in a while. The disks also suffer optical quality loss even with careful cleaning as instructed by MI themselves with the repeated needed cleanings! You can not safely clean plastic without scratching it...period! The desert is just not the place for these systems. I had multiple sites at different ends of the State that had to change disks in multiple units three times a year and sensors also clogged up very frequently. Some times you could unclog them and some times not. In places with these issues they suddenly became more expensive to own than it cost to lease Real-D gear over the 5 year contract! And Steve... Keep in mind that one can also purchase Real-D adaptors at a similar price as the MI unit... Also the .50 cents a ticket comes out of the 3-D surcharge so the theater in effect is paying absolutely nothing,the glasses are also still free. The reality is the customer is the one paying for the theater's adaptor and there is still a wee bit of surcharge left over for the theater to boot.

Now I always like the 3-D image out of the MI units and I'd be open to trying a fully enclosed unit but am so glad to be rid of the others.

Now on to more important things!

Mark

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2018 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.