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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Ignition problem on Barco dp 2k 15 c (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Ignition problem on Barco dp 2k 15 c
Adam Sherwood
Film Handler

Posts: 20
From: Wicklow, Eire ,Eire, Ireland
Registered: Jul 2013


 - posted 12-21-2013 11:54 AM      Profile for Adam Sherwood   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Sherwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi guys, ive been having this problem for a while, every couple of shows the Projector wont start the bulb. but when i do it myself not a problem, the spg anode got replaced still happening. bulb is fine and all connections checked the tech who happen tp be on site one day looked and said everything was fine. once its Manuel'y strik'd it comes on without a problem and Brightness on screen is as normal. The tech lads have tried a few things but no look .

we though it might be the way the Show start Que was set up.

Some adjustments were made

but no luck

Any one have any suggestions to check that we could try

its an odd problem, besides a pain running up when it happens and turning it back on its not causing any real trouble

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1543
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 12-21-2013 12:03 PM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Latest Barco firmware release has a specific update to improve xenon ignition. Get your integrator to check and update the projector firmware as necessary.

We see a lot of this problem, the current thinking is that it is damage caused to the bulb by running at minimum current. The projector is delivered with the highest wattage lamp it can use, which often as not is too bright for the screen. It then runs at minimum current to around 500 hours, when this problem starts. I've had this happen with Ushio, Phillips and Osram lamps in Barco projectors. Interestingly it doesn't happen in Kinoton projectors, but the LPS and ignitor (SPG in digital speak) are different to Barco's.

I always change the lamp to something suited to the screen conditions on installation. We can usually find someone who actually needs the removed lamp and a deal can be struck.

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Adam Sherwood
Film Handler

Posts: 20
From: Wicklow, Eire ,Eire, Ireland
Registered: Jul 2013


 - posted 12-21-2013 12:25 PM      Profile for Adam Sherwood   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Sherwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
they actually said they are going to do the Barco firmware on Monday as they did mention it could help. So maybe this will help bulb is osram 2k and has 1600 on hrs on it .... its not running on min power .... . as they are doing this on monday we wont know if it works til after Christmas.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12083
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-21-2013 07:50 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can not emphasize this enough...get rid of the Osram lamps. They are absolute junk. You will ALWAYS have more problems with them than Ushio. While it is true that they all have their good and bad batches...Osram has at least 50-times more bad lamps than Ushio.

That and firmware 1.11.133 should fix your issues. One can always add more lamp on lines in the macros (Either via automation or on the Barco format itself).

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Buck Wilson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 855
From: St. Joseph MO, USA
Registered: Sep 2010


 - posted 12-22-2013 03:09 AM      Profile for Buck Wilson   Email Buck Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've always been curious of that. So if you have 5 lamp on macros 5 seconds apart each and the lamp strikes successfully on the first or second cue, are the others ignored, or does it still try to strike a lit lamp or what?

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Adam Sherwood
Film Handler

Posts: 20
From: Wicklow, Eire ,Eire, Ireland
Registered: Jul 2013


 - posted 12-22-2013 06:55 AM      Profile for Adam Sherwood   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Sherwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know how bad osram are .. we moveing away in the new year. once our current stock runs out ....ive had 2 warenty claims in less than a year... had ushio on the 35mm hearldy ever an issue and we had one usiho for the barco last year no problems..

found when we had these problems every time it was from a playlisted show. and what was happeing as well was it kept trying to stike the bulb 3-4 times in a few seconds in stead of a second command to wait for a few sec then re strike.. one manuel strike and we were sorted ... Hopefully this fix will work. another early morning for me [Smile]

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12083
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-22-2013 08:12 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You should separate the lamp-on cues by 30 seconds or so to allow each one to execute. While the cues are not ignored if the lamp is on...the projector will see that the lamp is already on and not just fire the igniter (SPG) again. In effect, there is no real harm to having extras.

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Gavin Lewarne
Master Film Handler

Posts: 278
From: Plymouth, UK
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 12-22-2013 04:14 PM      Profile for Gavin Lewarne   Email Gavin Lewarne   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
had this with original factory fit osram, had it with warranty replacement osram, both around the 500 hour mark.

Put in a Ushio, no problem @ 900 hours, strikes first time every time

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Adam Sherwood
Film Handler

Posts: 20
From: Wicklow, Eire ,Eire, Ireland
Registered: Jul 2013


 - posted 12-23-2013 05:52 AM      Profile for Adam Sherwood   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Sherwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
yeah i had pritty much simuler problem.. 3k osram half life.. War claim

.got the update done this moring so we should be sorted

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Paul Maxon
Film Handler

Posts: 17
From: Minden, NE/ Unites States
Registered: Apr 2011


 - posted 12-27-2013 12:34 PM      Profile for Paul Maxon   Email Paul Maxon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From my experience with these 2K osram lamps, you will have this strike issue for about 100-200 more hours, then the lamp will start going out during shows. I have a house with 6 DP2K 12C projectors, and 2 DP2K-20C projectors. I have only had ONE OSRAM bulb ever make it to warranty hours. Do yourself a favor and pay the premium for a better lamp.

I actually had one die during a show on monday night. Working fine all day, the software update fixed the strike issues. Then about 50 minutes into the show, black screen. Restarted the lamp and checked its power, 55 amps, horrible flicker. I had to crank the power to the max to keep it lit. Managed to make it though the show. Replaced it with an USHIO bulb, which I have had way better luck with. Currently have 2 in projectors with over 1500 hours on them, working beautifully.

Lamp was at proper power settings and has proper cooling. But 1400 hours in, dead. Most I've ever gotten out of a 2K is 1700 hours.

Good Luck

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Gavin Lewarne
Master Film Handler

Posts: 278
From: Plymouth, UK
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 12-28-2013 09:03 AM      Profile for Gavin Lewarne   Email Gavin Lewarne   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
given the similar construction, internal components and operating tolerances it makes you wonder why osram seem to be far inferior against the similarly priced / specced Ushios

I mean, even the manufacturing process cannot be that different?

I have heard a rumour that Osram will soon cease Xenon production, though I am not sure as to its origins or truth

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3680
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 12-29-2013 07:06 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There were factory reports on OSRAM and LTI xenon manufacturing in past issues of cinema technology magazine. You'd be surprised how different manufacturing can be. And it is obvious that large batches of the same product may have wild variances in production quality. OSRAM did quite well for a long time. Seems they have serious problems now. For a while, LTI/Philips was considered the worst choice. Now it seems they outperform OSRAM.

The manufacturing and quality control of xenon lamps for digital cinema is very complicated.

- Carsten

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Adam Sherwood
Film Handler

Posts: 20
From: Wicklow, Eire ,Eire, Ireland
Registered: Jul 2013


 - posted 01-05-2014 12:05 PM      Profile for Adam Sherwood   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Sherwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
the update they did is hard to tell if it having an effect or not , , as the bulb has 1887 hours on it and 1054 strikes" caused by the problem of repeated striking" has happened a few more times but the bulb has been performing fine during the show no problem, im waiting on a order of ushio lamps to come in.

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1875
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 01-13-2014 01:23 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Someone more familiar with the C series can comment further on this, but I learned relatively recently that there is a known striking issue with the B series. The solution is to remove the metal cover on the back of the SPG compartment if it is present; new projectors are not shipping with this cover. I don't know if there is a similar cover on the C series, but I thought this was worth mentioning.

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Antti Nayha
Master Film Handler

Posts: 258
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 01-14-2014 04:32 PM      Profile for Antti Nayha   Email Antti Nayha   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Pete Naples
We see a lot of this problem, the current thinking is that it is damage caused to the bulb by running at minimum current.
Are you finding that this is the most common reason for Barco strike failures also with smaller lamps - say 3 kW and below? Or is it just the larger ones?

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