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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » NEC 1100 Digital Projector (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: NEC 1100 Digital Projector
Kerry Fleming
Film Handler

Posts: 40
From: Boynton Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 10-26-2013 09:57 AM      Profile for Kerry Fleming   Author's Homepage   Email Kerry Fleming   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had the opportunity to go to the Show East Trade Show this week. All the major equipment companies were represented as usual. NEC had their new 1100 digital laser projector set up. Watched a demo on it & was very impressed! Short throw to a modest sized screen. Brilliant picture, vibrant colors. All at only 30% power. Laser module life estimated to be (6) years. Operates on 220 VAC. That is NOT too shabby! And yes. This model still has the famous NEC tail lights top rear. Although not approved for sale in the US yet. Final FDA & DCI approvals expected in the first quarter of 2014.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

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From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 10-26-2013 11:00 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Any word on the estimated price? I have heard something like 150.000 US$ - which would be ridiculous for a 2k/5000Lumen/1600:1 machine.
I hope the contrast spec was just 'made up' and is not real. These 1600:1 would be less than the mediocre S2k machines. Don't see how the 6 years laser module lifespan could make up for these other aspects in a DCI context.

- Carsten

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Kerry Fleming
Film Handler

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From: Boynton Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 10-26-2013 02:44 PM      Profile for Kerry Fleming   Author's Homepage   Email Kerry Fleming   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And, I neglected to say, no need for exhaust venting either. Very low operating temperature. Overall size of their model 900 projector.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

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From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-26-2013 04:09 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Carsten...

Thate's no way it can cost that much. The Christie Laser Projector going into Seattle Cinerama was in the 140K price range. I expect this to be in the 40k to 50k price range tops. If it isn't then very few will be sold...

Mark

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-26-2013 06:24 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
All 3 of the major manufacturers will have similarly capable and priced projectors. Just wait it out a little bit. Until the cost of operation with laser is LESS than with xenon lamps, unless you are trying to light some monstrous sized sheet, laser projection is foolish. Its more proof of concept at the moment.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 11749
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 10-26-2013 07:59 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Did you say 5000 lumen or 50000 lumen? That is a 10:1 difference. If it is 5000 lumen, then one would be foolish to every buy it. A 6 year life cycle on the most expensive part of the projector will NEVER pay for itself. An NC900C gets 3000 hours on (and I'm being on the real expensive side here) $1000.00 for lamps. So lets say you run grind and only get a year on a set of lamps. In 6 years, you spent $6000 (and I'm telling you street price is less than that)....You are at half of Mark's optimistic look of about $50K for sticking with a comparable "lamp" based projector.

Brad is right...this is proof of concept stuff. The only way things could make sense is for the very large screens where xenon becomes not cost effective (lamps that last just hundreds of hours and cost thousands of dollars).

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Antti Nayha
Master Film Handler

Posts: 258
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 10-26-2013 08:56 PM      Profile for Antti Nayha   Email Antti Nayha   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Apparently the NC1100L is 5,000 lumens. They've also been talking about an upcoming NC1040L model, that can accommodate two or more laser light units to boost the light output in a linear fashion. The "lamp" life is estimated at 20,000 hours.

Some links (sorry for not including the full text of all three articles):
Jun 24 press release (NC1040L, amongst other stuff)
Oct 21 press release (NC1100L)
Sep 26 Manice article (NC1040L)

According to the Manice article, a NC1040L setup with two light units, adding up to 10,000 lumens, would sell for 100,000 euros = around 140,000 USD.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 11749
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 10-27-2013 12:10 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Then once again, it is stupid option. Using the nice and easy $1000/lamp number. At 3000 hours, that would be 7 lamps or $7000 (and it will be less). The cost difference is FAR more than that spread. At 10,000 lumens...in an NEC...that puts you in an NC2000C running their bottom-end 4KW lamp (of the "approved lamps)... and again, it is FAR, FAR cheaper to run xenon.

If one is not trying to get over 25000 lumens, until lasers get a lot cheaper, they are bad money. If you are putting in 6-8KW xenons, then lasers make start to make the financial argument. Unless you are running Dolby 3D. With lasers, Dolby 3D doesn't need the filter wheel so its light output should more than double and be in competition for the brightest 3D, ironically.

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Marco Giustini
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From: Reading, UK
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 - posted 10-27-2013 04:20 AM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting. Why Dolby 3D doesn't need the wheel with lasers?

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James Crowley
Film Handler

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From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, UK
Registered: Nov 2012


 - posted 10-27-2013 05:32 AM      Profile for James Crowley         Edit/Delete Post 
I haven't seen any kind of laser upgrade feature. What about all the multiplexes kitted with nc1200,2000.... Etc. Are we supposed to buy brand new projectors if we want laser?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 11749
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 10-27-2013 06:31 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Because, with Lasers, you have the color of the light you need right from the light source itself...no need for filtering...you aren't starting with white and trying to remove the bits from each eye...just put out what you need.

As for the NC1200-NC2000 it isn't a valid concern...why would you ever want lasers? it is far, far cheaper to stay with xenon, as in 10s of thousands cheaper. Before lasers get cheap enough to compete with xenon on that scale, you projector will probably be heading for the scrap heap due to the high cost of upkeep. That is something that we are just starting to see. Where the repair costs for most anything on DCinema projection is quite expensive. And these companies don't seem to be too concerned about "repairing" they are about just replacing what breaks.

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Kerry Fleming
Film Handler

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From: Boynton Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 10-27-2013 09:07 AM      Profile for Kerry Fleming   Author's Homepage   Email Kerry Fleming   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Couldn't agree more. Definitely a wait & see game. Laser will be expensive & uncertain investment at this time. Would have to come into line with xenon pricing to compete. Was a great looking picture!
Also looking into the NEC 1200 projector which uses the twin sodium vapor lamps. Again, no exhaust venting required. Low operating temperatures. Good on smaller screen (up to 25 ft). I am told that by changing to a high gain screen (2.2) up to 35 ft. Any thoughts along those lines?

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

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From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 10-27-2013 09:31 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
According to some sources, the 5000Lumen spec reflects the current laser regulations. They would not be able to sell it for operation in public with more brightness under current regulations.

While there have been prototype LIP demonstrations by every manufacturer, I'm really wondering why NEC now comes out with a ready-to-market device with these mediocre specs? Just to show off?
However, the 1600:1 contrast spec bothers me most...

IMAX/Barco are getting more specific towards their first IMAX LIP installations in 2014, which are said to be dual 4k projection setups. While manufactured by Barco, they seem to follow the KODAK dedicated LIP design (IMAX acquired KODAKs LIP patents), not Barcos own retrofit LIP design demonstrated earlier.
Hence IMAX quotes a 8000:1 contrast spec. And since for now these LIPs are only intended for IMAX' largest screens (now still on 15/70), they will probably be in the 50.000+ lumen range (single projector).

Now, THAT makes sense, replacing two extremely expensive 15kW Xenon bulbs, but the NEC at 5000 lumens, I don't get it...

@Kerry: The dual NSH lamp unit is the NEC900C. The 1200 uses Xenon like the rest of the DLP family. I am nearly sure the NC1100L is 'just' a NC900C with a laser illumination addon, see images:

NC900C: http://www.astera.ru/news/images/2012/2012_06_21/NEC_NC900C.jpg
NC1100L: http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/1100l.jpg

Hence the same mediocre contrast number as all S2k machines.

Search the forum for NC900, there are some previous discussions.

- Carsten

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Pietro Clarici
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 136
From: Foligno (PG) Italy
Registered: Sep 2008


 - posted 10-27-2013 11:37 AM      Profile for Pietro Clarici   Author's Homepage   Email Pietro Clarici   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
List price seems to be 38.000 $.
Not terribly bad in comparison with the 900C, but it all depends on how long the laser engine will really be able to work/remain in spec and how much it will cost to get a new one.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3278
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 10-27-2013 12:13 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Now, that's a different number...

- Carsten

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