Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | my password | register | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » 'Jesus Christ Superstar' DCP question (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: 'Jesus Christ Superstar' DCP question
Jonathan Goeldner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1330
From: Washington, District of Columbia
Registered: Jun 2008


 - posted 10-21-2013 09:33 AM      Profile for Jonathan Goeldner   Email Jonathan Goeldner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know that the Astor Theater in August showed this and advertised 5.1 sound, but has anyone handled or played the DCP to actually confirm this? I know that the bluray hidef transfer from Universal pretty much trashed the 5.1 mix that was on the DVD and replaced it with a 2-channel sound. (why oh why??) All in all, it's a tad baffling why Universal would cull and retain the 5.1 soundmix for Jesus Christ Superstar's DCP and not for the bluray.

 |  IP: Logged

Victor Liorentas
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 796
From: london ontario canada
Registered: May 2009


 - posted 10-21-2013 09:44 AM      Profile for Victor Liorentas   Email Victor Liorentas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah like they did with The Thing and The Blues Brothers! [Mad]

 |  IP: Logged

Jonathan Goeldner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1330
From: Washington, District of Columbia
Registered: Jun 2008


 - posted 10-21-2013 10:06 AM      Profile for Jonathan Goeldner   Email Jonathan Goeldner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
but weren't the home video releases new 5.1 mixes since original audio for 'The Thing' and 'Blues Brothers' was 4.0 ?

Universal is very inconsistent in how they encode their DCP's audio wise, two that pop into mind are (and I'm sure there are others)

Jaws - DCP: 7.1 / Blu-ray: 7.1 + 5.1 + original mono mix
E.T. DCP: 5.1 / Blu-ray: 7.1 + 5.1 EX

 |  IP: Logged

Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 10-21-2013 10:38 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would imagine they wouldn't "mess around" with Spielberg DCP's.

BTW -- recent 35mm prints of "Jaws" had full 5.1 SRD

But Universal has earned a bad reputation for how they're handling sound on DCP's of their repertory titles.

Not just "The Thing" and "Blues Brothers" but also "Zoot Suit" and all of the old monster movies. This is (at least) the THIRD thread on F-T (that I'm aware of) dealing with concerns about DCP audio on rep titles -- and ALL of them trace back to Universal.

Granted, this thread is simply asking a question. But I'm sure there are a few of us who will "watch this space" for the answer.

Has anyone bothered to check those "7.1" versions to see if they really remixed them? Or did they merely duplicate Ls/Rs to the rear channels and call it 7.1?

 |  IP: Logged

Kirk Futrell
Film Handler

Posts: 92
From: Nashville, TN / U.S.A.
Registered: Nov 2008


 - posted 10-21-2013 11:54 AM      Profile for Kirk Futrell   Author's Homepage   Email Kirk Futrell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We just played "The Tingler" with Vincent price. The DCP audio is mixed incorrectly for that film. According to the notes that came with the original Percepto seat tinglers, there are at least 2 scenes where the sound is supposed to leave the center speaker and move to the surrounds so that Vincent Prices voice and some screams are heard from inside the theatre instead of behind the screen. Unfortunately the sound mix was mono and we did not have time to figure out and practice a solution to move the mono sound to the surrounds and back quickly. Though now that i think about it we probably could have had the ap20 duplicat the front channels on the surrounds and left the amps turned down until the appropriate moment then turned down the center channel at that time. Or the person making the DCP could have made it as intended.
 -

 |  IP: Logged

Frank B. McLaughlin
Film Handler

Posts: 73
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Dec 2011


 - posted 10-21-2013 11:58 AM      Profile for Frank B. McLaughlin   Author's Homepage   Email Frank B. McLaughlin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
FYI: Originally "SUPERSTAR" in 35mm mag was 3 channel.

 |  IP: Logged

Jonathan Goeldner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1330
From: Washington, District of Columbia
Registered: Jun 2008


 - posted 10-21-2013 12:52 PM      Profile for Jonathan Goeldner   Email Jonathan Goeldner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
^ a 6-track mix was also created for 70mm engagement of the film.

when comparing the bluray to the first (5.0) DVD release of 'JCS' the placement of audio cues between the center-left and right-center is much more prominent and nuanced - it's essentially recreating the 5-front channel spread - the 2.0 bluray audio utterly fails in this respect.

~

in other related news - I couldn't tell if the DCP of 'Oliver!' was incorrectly encoded or played back wrong - but what I heard at Landmark E Street recently was a huge disappointment. My German bluray is 5.0 surround, the DCP I heard was 2.0 - heard back in two channel stereo made it sound way off.

 |  IP: Logged

Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 10-21-2013 01:36 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know of any major releases that were mixed in "2.0" -- Left/Right only -- aka Lo/Ro.

The "2.0" that you heard was probably an Lt/Rt that was not decoded. And, if you were watching a DCP, they're not supposed to carry Lt/Rt mixes. DCP's of older "stereo" movies should carry either the original 4.0 master or (at least) the decoded Lt/Rt.

 |  IP: Logged

Jonathan Goeldner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1330
From: Washington, District of Columbia
Registered: Jun 2008


 - posted 10-21-2013 01:49 PM      Profile for Jonathan Goeldner   Email Jonathan Goeldner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
but 4.0 can downmix to 2.0 - right? how and why would you not make the center channel a discrete channel in this day and age?

from blu-ray.com's review of 'Jesus Christ Superstar':
"Jesus Christ Superstar features a lossless DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 that more than adequately recreates the theatrical exhibition's four track stereo soundtrack. Voices are very well mixed if perhaps a bit too far forward at times and there's some wide stereo separation that's evident from the first moments of the Overture. Fidelity is excellent and dynamic range is fairly wide."

now in terms of 'Oliver! - I really don't know what happened - if it was in encoded a 4.0, it certainly was not being played back as such, it was most definitely left and right speaker only - there was no center channel (... and no surrounds).

 |  IP: Logged

Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 10-21-2013 01:54 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Lt/Rt *is* a matrix/downmix of the 4.0 master. Formats like Dolby 04 and 05 (aka Pro-Logic) perform the opposite functions to decode an Lt/Rt back to 4.0.

Matrix encoding/decoding was the only way of getting that many (hi-fi) tracks into the space reserved for the analog-optical soundtrack (without re-engineering the whole 35mm format).

For DCP's they can and should provide the discrete tracks. There's no reason not to.

These studio people need to make up their minds whether or not they want "unmanned" booths because in 5-10 years' time, there won't be many people working in theatres who will know anything about Lt/Rt's and what-not.

And, besides, the DCI spec calls for routing the channels to discrete speaker locations. Channel 1 is to be routed to the far-left speaker, etc.

 |  IP: Logged

Jonathan Goeldner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1330
From: Washington, District of Columbia
Registered: Jun 2008


 - posted 10-21-2013 02:14 PM      Profile for Jonathan Goeldner   Email Jonathan Goeldner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
^ just out of curiosity, what "channels" on DCI compliant audio processors factor in center/left and center/right discrete sources, when and if mixers were to resurrect five front stage mixing.

 |  IP: Logged

Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 10-21-2013 02:20 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not sure if it has changed, but it used to be the 4th pair -- channels 7 & 8.

 |  IP: Logged

Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1463
From: Notre Dame du Lac, Indiana USA
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 10-21-2013 02:25 PM      Profile for Aaron Garman   Email Aaron Garman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
With these incorrectly produced 2.0 DCPs, would one even be able to send that signal to a matrix decoder like a CP650 easily?

We show a lot of rep stuff, and I have a feeling down the line it's gonna happen to us too. It hasn't that I know of as of yet.

AJG

 |  IP: Logged

Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 10-21-2013 02:39 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For me, it requires a temporary re-wiring.

Normally, our DCP audio goes directly to the Digital I/O option card in the CP650.

To accomplish Lt/Rt decoding, I have to temporarily rewire
DSS200 > DMA8plus > CP650
and apply programming to engage the Pro-Logic decoding on the DMA8plus at the appropriate time (some trailers are multichannel)

Note that the DSS 200 doesn't provide "built-in" programming for Pro-Logic versus Discrete on the DMA8plus -- so I accomplish that via Crestron.

 |  IP: Logged

Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3774
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 10-21-2013 07:07 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The AP20 has a software format option to accomplish that.

One is for ES type matrix encoded surrounds - LS/RS matrix decoded to LBS/RBS, the other for Lt/Rt Matrix encoded mixes on L/R channels (+optional bass enhancement)..

How do you actually tell a plain stereo mix that will create 'some' action in the surrounds and center from a dedicated matrix encoded Lt/Rt mix if there is no clear indication?

- Carsten

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2018 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.