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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Can 4K be in 3D?

   
Author Topic: Can 4K be in 3D?
Trevor Cable
Film Handler

Posts: 22
From: Hillsboro, OR, USA
Registered: Jan 2011


 - posted 10-03-2013 11:08 AM      Profile for Trevor Cable   Email Trevor Cable   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,
I'm sure this is a basic question for some but searching Christie documentation it was kind of unclear to me if a 4K upgraded Christie CP2220 (with the correct IMB and server) could play back stereo 4K. My cinema vendor is pretty sure it will do stereo 4K (with the right upgrades, etc) but before I let my boss know one way or the other I thought I should be really sure of the answer. I'm also hoping that if the answer is yes I can use the SDI inputs rather than a DCP. We want to play our own in house content off our custom server which uses 3G SDI.
Thanks for any feedback on this.

Christie CP2220
Doremi Showvault / IMB

-Cable

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2545
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 10-03-2013 02:36 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am not sure it's doable.

Assuming an IMB can do 3D-2K at 48fps, this is

(2048 x 1080)x48(frames)x2(eyes)x12(bits)x3(colours)=7.64Gbits

Apparently 60Hz are supported, hence

(2048 x 1080)x60(frames)x2(eyes)x12(bits)x3(colours)=9.55Gbits

A 4K at 24fps 3D would be

(4096 x 2160) x 24 x 2 x 12 x 3 = 15.2Gbits

Not sure if the IMB can support that.

Are my calculations correct?

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2133
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 10-03-2013 03:15 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think you can even do 2D 4K through SDI - an IMB is required for a wide enough data path for 4K projection.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2545
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 10-03-2013 03:47 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I did not see the SDI!

2xHDSDI are 2.97Gbit, hence 2D4K is not allowed. Even normal 3D has to be compromised reducing the colour depth.

3G-SDI: my notes say 12Gbits, internet says 6Gbits. 2D 4K is 7.64, depending on who is right it may or may not work (I reckon the latter!)

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Trevor Cable
Film Handler

Posts: 22
From: Hillsboro, OR, USA
Registered: Jan 2011


 - posted 10-03-2013 04:48 PM      Profile for Trevor Cable   Email Trevor Cable   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you for the responses. It sounds like in the world of distribution (theaters) there will be no 4K stereoscopic content yet and when it is here it'll probably only be through future IMB's.

Thanks.

-Cable

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16221
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-03-2013 10:03 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The original demos of 4K at Showest were done via HDSDI but I believe there were either 6 or 8 HDSDI cables for the link. That was a long time ago...

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Antti Nayha
Master Film Handler

Posts: 259
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 10-04-2013 05:53 AM      Profile for Antti Nayha   Email Antti Nayha   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Of course, you can do it with two projectors and two IMB's. I don't know how much 4K 3D content there is, though - I suppose it's just a few giant screen titles for now.

Qube's press release:
quote:
Burbank, CA—Sep 4, 2012
Qube Cinema Brings Single-Server 4K 3D to Giant Screens
Dual Projector System Opens Up Opportunities for Digital Conversions

Giant Screen theaters are rapidly converting to digital cinema and at the GSCA Conference later this month in Sacramento, CA visitors can see the latest technology from Qube Cinema. The Qube XP-I server will stream a single high bit-rate 4K 3D DCP through two Qube Xi 4K Integrated Media Blocks (IMBs) in two Barco DP4K-23B projectors. This high bit-rate, 4K 3D projection from a single DCP through a single server greatly simplifies exhibition for Giant Screen theaters.

The Qube system has already been installed in the Houston Museum of Natural Science’s Giant Screen theater, which was converted to digital in March 2012 when they installed a Qube XP-I server and two Xi 4K IMBs.

“Our conversion from 70mm film to digital cinema couldn’t have been smoother,” said Charlotte Brohi, VP giant screen operations and film production at the HMNS. “The projectionists found the move to digital seamless and, because of the decrease in troubleshooting that comes with digital – for example, there is no film breakage – we only need one projectionist in the booth, saving labor costs.”

The HMNS, which could only have three films at a time on its schedule prior to the conversion, intends to launch a film festival later this year with five or six movies.

“Audiences are still getting the pristine, immersive experience they were used to and, although attendance is stable, our net revenue has increased because of the lower operating costs,” said Brohi. “We also plan to convert our library of self-produced films to digital so we can continue to offer them to other Giant Screen theaters.”

At the GSCA Conference, the Qube XP-I server will be paired with two 4K Xi IMBs installed in two Barco DP4K-23B projectors. The XP-I server is capable of synchronizing the IMBs and can stream up to 1 GB of data – or 500 Mbps per projector – through a dual Gigabit Ethernet interface, supporting dual projectors at up to 60 fps for 4K projection and up to 240 fps for 2K content.

“This Qube system is ready to ship to other Giant Screen venues around the world,” said Eric Bergez, Qube Cinema’s director of sales and marketing for the Americas. “As digital conversions sweep the industry, our advanced technology couldn’t have come at a better time.”

Visitors to the GSCA Conference can visit Qube during the trade show on Thursday, September 20, 2012 in the foyer of the Grand Nave Ballroom at the Sheraton Grand Sacramento. For more information about the Qube XP-I and the Xi 4K IMB, or to schedule a demo, contact Eric Bergez at sales@qubecinema.com or 818-392-8155.


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Marco Giustini
Film God

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From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 10-04-2013 01:06 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What is the bandwidth limitation on an IMB? Can the IMB playback anything as long as it's handled by the DMDs? And what would be the DMDs limitation?

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1033
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003


 - posted 10-04-2013 04:58 PM      Profile for Scott Jentsch   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Jentsch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Marcus Theatres is debuting a dual 4K 3D system at their North Shore Cinemas in Mequon, WI:

Marcus North Shore Cinemas Unveils Dual Projection 3D System

quote:
Marcus Theatres reached out to us this week with some information about an upgrade they have made to the UltraScreen auditorium at the Marcus North Shore Cinemas in Mequon, Wisconsin. Starting this Friday, October 4, 2013, they will be using a dual projection 4K 3D system to fill the theater's 70-foot-wide screen with three dimensional images of Gravity 3D.

The two 4K projectors, one for each eye, should effectively double the amount of light that reaches the screen. Light levels have been a challenge for 3D presentations, with many critics and audience members alike wishing that the 3D versions of movies weren't darker than their 2D counterparts.

(editorial content omitted)

Unfortunately, there was no information in their advisory about the equipment being used.

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3661
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 10-06-2013 08:28 AM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
Unfortunately, Gravity is a 2K DCP.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2545
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 10-06-2013 01:33 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And as said, I don't think there are 4K 3D DCPs around. The fact you have 4K machines on a dual projector installation allows you to show 4K 2D features, but you'll still be stuck in 2K when running 3D.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3775
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 10-13-2013 04:49 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No problem to use a dual 4k projection setup for 3D. Only that it will still only play 2k 3D footage. Of course uprezz'd to 4k in each projector. Well, you COULD call it 4k 3D in advertizing. The viewing conditions with current stereoscopic 3D are so limited that hardly anyone would be able to see a difference between 4k and 2k anyway.

Sony and Barco are working on 4k 3D systems, the Qube Systems are dual IMB special venue installations and can not play DCI content in 4k 3D. 4k 3D is not even standardized by DCI or SMPTE yet, although it would be pretty straight forward going from current formats.

- Carsten

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